Andy Withrow: 0:02

Welcome to the bear with me podcast, table radio, where we aim to integrate belief and practice in the Christian life. Hey, welcome, everybody. Right now at the table church, we're getting back to our roots. Right, Vanessa? Yeah, we're getting back to our roots. Yeah, we're exploring the seven roots of the table just to mix up our metaphors. Seven roots at the table. It's what makes us tick. It's who we are. We had these we planted the table over 10 years ago now. And we've come back to him for kind of our 10th birthday. So there's seven of these that we're exploring. We're in the middle of exploring them in a season. But it's Advent. Yes. And so on the one hand, we want to pay attention to time, see our last podcast for that. And so we're gonna take a break from our series to give this season of Aven. It's full do but on the other hand, Advent is an aspect of our rootedness that kind of takes all the roots together and puts them into a season for us of anticipation. So we are rooted in evidence. So in another way, we're kind of continuing on the series. So we're sticking with the series name are rooted in anticipation or anticipating in this season. So my name is Andy, Vanessa's here with me again. And happy Advent again. And we thought it'd be fun to talk about why we named the podcast bear with me. Yeah, because maybe it's not obvious. Yeah. Maybe it's not obvious yet. It's only our second episode. That's true. So

Vanessa Caruso: 1:42

what? Why? Why did you come up with that?

Andy Withrow: 1:44

Well, we were so we were in the we were in the table Radio studios. Yeah. Like, like we are. And we were about to record and we thought we kind of need a name for this podcast, because that's what people do. They name podcasts. And so we were brainstorming names. And I don't remember exactly how it happened. But that one came up. Yeah. And it just sort of stuck.

Vanessa Caruso: 2:10

And the reason why I loved it is because I'm a nine on the Enneagram. I'm confused. Are you a nine or a five?

Andy Withrow: 2:18

I think I'm a nine.

Vanessa Caruso: 2:19

You do? Yeah. Oh, I always thought you were a nine. But recently, I heard you talk like you're a five.

Andy Withrow: 2:25

Like I talks using a ama fiber like I talked and you thought oh, you sound like a five?

Vanessa Caruso: 2:29

No, you identified yourself as a five really? Yeah. Everything off for me.

Andy Withrow: 2:34

That's funny, because I don't I don't know. What's the five?

Vanessa Caruso: 2:38

Oh, like the ones who need a lot of study and knowledge and resources in order to

Andy Withrow: 2:45

like those things. Yeah. But okay. No,

Unknown: 2:48

maybe it was a dream.

Andy Withrow: 2:50

Is there there's like wings on those things? Yes. Five, a wing for nine. No? Nothing.

Vanessa Caruso: 2:56

Okay, you're a nine. So this is all the better because one of the blind spots for the nine I took an Enneagram course. And she said the blind spot for the nine is that sometimes you lose people in your meandering explanations?

Andy Withrow: 3:11

I think we're losing people right now. I

Vanessa Caruso: 3:12

do too. That's why we say bear with me. Oh, I

Andy Withrow: 3:17

get it. Back.

Vanessa Caruso: 3:18

Yeah. That's when you said that. I thought that's like the perfect phrase for me because I'm self conscious about talking because I'm gonna lose people because I don't quite know what I think I see. And it takes me a long time to get there with me. Bear with me. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 3:32

Yeah, that was that was that fit really well, I think for both of us, because I think we tend to like to just start things. Low key, and we'll work out the kinks as we go. Yeah,

Unknown: 3:43

I'll see that as we go. That's how it came up last week. Bear with

Andy Withrow: 3:47

me. We're figuring it out. We don't have a title yet. Just bear with me. And, and then it just really fit with the theme. Yes. of Advent and what what our pilot episode topic was exactly which was, which was in this case. Mary bearing a child,

Vanessa Caruso: 4:09

Yes, God born of a woman, a virgin.

Andy Withrow: 4:13

And we're going to talk a bit about more about that today. And, and just thinking about the the nature of our show, which we'd like to be integrating belief and practice in the Christian life bearing with one another, as the New Testament tells us to do think of bearing with Christ and the yoke, the easy yoke of how that sounds, how do we get into the easy yoke as an image? So all those things kind of conflated into this idea of bearing burdens together, bearing the burden of of Christ, which is supposed to be freedom. Yes. And have have a sense of ease about it.

Vanessa Caruso: 4:56

And you know what, I just thought, Oh, also Uh huh. A huge part of life is learning how to bear with ourselves. Like we are the main thing God has given each of us to steward. Some of us have kids, some of us don't have kids. But we all have ourselves like you have little Andy and middle aged dandy. And soon to be elder Andy, to learn how to be with for your whole life. Like there's a real there's a there's a reality there that I have to bear with myself. Yes, more than almost anybody else you could say. So bear with me is kind of a cool way to express that that is part of life is learning how to be with ourselves. And doing it with others. I mean, my favorite word in that title is probably with because with just makes everything better. It's why people come to church are one of the reasons it's why a is so

Andy Withrow: 5:54

it's why we decided to do this podcast together because we're doing our own thing. Exactly. And we didn't like it. Yes.

Unknown: 6:02

It wasn't that good. At least mine.

Andy Withrow: 6:05

Yeah, it's it's easier to do things together with other people. And then you just have conversation is just seems like a way easier thing. Yeah, I have to come with a monologue. Yeah. Basically taught by myself and to myself.

Vanessa Caruso: 6:18

Yeah, it's not the way we are designed. No.

Andy Withrow: 6:21

This is way more fun. Yeah. And easier. Easier yoke. Yes. Okay. So, Mary, we talked about this last time, Mary has a unique role in bringing, getting a role in bringing about God's kingdom. And she is known, especially in the Eastern Church as the god bearer, theatre costs. That's the there's the five unbecoming. Look at right study, never heard a medic study there. But it just means literally means God bear. Or we can think of it as the Christ bear is maybe a bit more easier translation for for some of us. And that kind of transitions us into kind of our first big topic of today is talking about the significance and meaning of Mary, being the god bear. In what, if anything, does that mean for us? So I was thinking about this in in one of the things interrupted anytime for NASA. Sure, right. But one of the things that struck me in in kind of reflecting on this passage, and last, we looked at Luke one Luke Chapter One last time, and it's where Gabriel comes to Mary and gives the announcement. And and Mary is betrothed. She's not married. And so there's, there's some challenges there. And it's picked up more and Matthews Matthew's Gospel, because that one talks a bit about Joseph's response, who, who plans to divorce her quietly, because of what's happened, but he doesn't know, then he has to have his own kind of angelic visit to know that no, he's not to do that. He's to us to marry her and, and all the rest. But it sort of points to this, I think, an inverted experience for Mary, where because of what the angels announcement and what God is doing in her, she will experience shame. In her cultural and social context, and her setting she is going to experience the shame of being with child outside of marriage.

Unknown: 8:46

Yeah, that is so weird.

Andy Withrow: 8:49

And yet juxtapose to that is the is the grace that she's bringing through her role, like the, the incredible grace that of God's God being with us through her as as a willing participant in a servant in this case, and those two ideas together that she is, in a more literal sense, bringing God with her wherever she goes. And she's going to give birth to this one and going to raise this one in her home. And she is the steward of such immense grace with such a mark of shame to go with it.

Vanessa Caruso: 9:31

I've never really thought about that before.

Andy Withrow: 9:35

That crazy Yes. And no, maybe there's not in the episode we talked about last week but the when she went I think it's after Jesus is born. And they take him to the temple for the dedication. And I think it's it's Simeon. I think you'd go back and check, but I think it's Simeon, who who blesses the child and prophesize over him. Yeah. And, and gets this glimpse of the significance of this child who it is, and talks about a sword piercing Mary's Heart seemed like the overlapping ideas of like the both the joy, and the pain and sorrow, mix together of being in her unique role as getting to be this one's mother, wow. In the world, in light of all the goodness and the grace that this one brings, but also the sorrow and the the darkness that's going to come. Wow, Andy, I think this is a big, big ideas, but they're also, I think, helpful metaphors of way into the Christian life. Because there's a sense in which this is unique, and maybe a one off thing. But there's also a sense of this is, this is the nature of God's Kingdom in the world that we are participating in. And if we are in any sense, God bears, like Mary or Christ bears, then can we participate in both sides of this, the glory and the grace of it, and the goodness, but also, maybe bearing some shame. Maybe having bearing some sorrow and darkness, also as a fruit, which is not something you always get advertised in the Christian life,

Vanessa Caruso: 11:29

no. Andy, that kind of blew my mind because I knew we were talking about God bears, but I only was thinking of the, the bright sides of that, like the, the good parts are, quote, unquote, good. Like the invitation to be the hands and feet of God in the world. But I hadn't thought about the reality of bearing God as also an acceptance of you know, wherever there's great love, there's sorrow. And whenever I have risked truly loving, it means that I'm susceptible and vulnerable to pain, and hurt and loss. And so I just hadn't, I hadn't put those two together, that part of baring God in the world is being willing to be hurt, which is the definition of vulnerable, it means the capacity to be wounded. So there's such vulnerability and there's such power and joy. That's the side I was thinking of was the, you know, I grew up in my dad was a pastor. So something that hasn't been super helpful for me was kind of adopting this worldview as a kid that I have an obligation as a Christian to never say no to anybody. Because I'm like a pastor's kid. You're a pastor's kid to me.

Andy Withrow: 13:08

Yeah. We're both nines, roll pastor kid. Wow.

Vanessa Caruso: 13:11

Bear with us. It's like the kind of the obligation to be the image of God, at church and in your world. As an elementary school kid and teenage kid something about that. I'm hoping to do a little bit better now as an adult with a kid. Not that my parents didn't do a good job, it's just having experienced it. So this the the obligation to be God to other people, like the pressure, if you're a pressure susceptible person, isn't totally helpful. What is helpful to me is the invitation. Like, for me waking up to the reality, that the little things might matter. That instead of thinking you, you bear God, if you go to a foreign country and be a missionary, to say, No, there's an invitation in whatever spot in life, I'm in whatever stage of life, whatever vocation or career I find myself in, at the moment, there's an invitation there to be the hands and feet of God. Yeah. And it reminds me Shane Claiborne, tells the story about being with Mother Teresa and the sisters in India. And every morning they would I forget what kind of prayer they did, but it was some kind of silent, contemplative prayer. I think they took you the Eucharist every every morning, and kind of soaked in silence, and there's all these needs around them and I'm totally butchering the story, because I don't remember but it was something like him asking why do you do this? Like why do you spend this time doing nothing? Like an hour or whatever? And the answer was something along the lines of we're soaking up the presence and the love of God because of all the needs. And it just reminds me of like charging our phone overnight, you know, we're like, Ooh, got to charge my phone, like we need it on full power. And so that's where I was thinking about about bearing God was the idea of kind of plugging in to God in a regular way. So that throughout our day, at the post office, when we see a neighbor, when we talk to a co worker, we're kind of poised and ready for this invitation. Like you never know. You might be full of attention, love, imagination, encouragement, ideas, that actually make a difference to someone else, and then make your day better to like, life is like full of opportunity. With that mindset, not the obligation, when not don't make any mistakes, perpetually be available to anyone who wants to talk to you about anything, right, because you're a pastor's kid. Not that way. Yeah. But the invitation.

Andy Withrow: 16:07

Yeah. Like an imagination shift. Yeah, that this is initially what I thought of, when we first talked about the idea or the topic was being having an awareness. vocation of calling of, this is who I am, this is who I am. And this is what I do in the world as I bear God with me, I bear Christ with me wherever I go. And just as a first step in awareness of that, yes, not, oh, I need to do X, Y, and Zed. Yeah. Like Mary didn't need to do anything. Right? She said, Yes. Let it let it be. She was supposed to call the child's name Jesus. Right? In terms of explicit instructions. Everything else is sort of it's, it's going to happen. You will go, you will be a full participant, but not in terms of, oh, I have to, here's a checklist of things to do. Now you are going to bear the Son of God. Wherever you go, and when you walk in the room. You're bringing this presence with you. Yeah. And in the next episode, we alluded to it last time, but so much so that Elizabeth child leaped in the womb, John leaps in the womb, in the Spirit is at work there. Wow. And so there's things so an awareness that things are happening, that if, if you are in Christ, then then there is a there is a there's a shift that has happened, and that we have this this reality of bringing God with us where we go. And even just being as I think for our only goal, I think was just like that first step of awareness. Yes. It's like, okay, let this is an imagination shift. It was a worldview shift. I think that that we were not always aware of or thinking about. That seems important.

Vanessa Caruso: 18:31

I love that. I love that you said awareness is the first step. And it feels like plenty of work to just keep working on the awareness bit. Yeah. And trusting that the fruit of it or whatever we would call it kind of comes from that.

Andy Withrow: 18:50

Yeah, yeah, it's so much so I mean, when when I go to prepare a sermon, and this comes from my training at trained for preaching under Darrell Johnson. And, and he, he was always very careful in a very helpful way. When you prepare sermons, you have to make sure that you're not giving rules for people to just kind of follow because it's not the gospel. Right. And and if there's elements of obedience, which is important. It you have to be able to show how obedience is also a way of saying trust. Yes, like, here's the way that God is at work in the world. How can I participate? How can I trust in that? Yeah. And so getting away from the the dutiful slave to the participating child, maybe is a way of kind of shifting the metaphor a bit. I think servanthood metaphor can still be helpful. Yeah, yeah. But, but for a lot of us, I think we sometimes we kind of can approach spirituality as a list of to dues and to not to dues? And it's it's much bigger than that. I think those are, those are sort of implications of a much larger trusting relationship. Yeah. Right. And I think that's, that's kind of what we're getting at here is like, how do we shift our, our AR imagination? I guess?

Vanessa Caruso: 20:23

Yeah, you just made me think about your opening about how this invitation for married a bear, Christ was socially not cool, you know, to be pregnant outside of marriage, and how, you know, I can't relate with that exact one, like getting pregnant before I was married, or something like that, or the equivalent of that, what that would be now. But that's kind of radical to me that God would sanction such a confusing social situation for her, and to say, bear with me here. You know, like, there's, there's something bigger than what this looks like, or I trust you with this. And I'm not I'm not worried about you, in the long term, suffering this trauma of like, social uncleanness, or whatever. So it just makes me wonder about all the little ways that I might disqualify myself, or my situation in life, or my career, or my mood, or my personality. And just think, like, Well, God's definitely not in that, you know, or I got it, I have to get better, or I have to change jobs, or I have to become more of an introvert or be nicer to my kids before I can have this awareness. Or before I can bear God in the world, right, as a parent or a wife or a friend, when kind of what we're talking about is it's already there. It's not something we like muster up. It's it's the audacity to trust that God is

Andy Withrow: 22:10

in within that trusting obedience might make you look bad.

Unknown: 22:15

That is weird. That's a hard one. That's hard. Like that's,

Andy Withrow: 22:20

it might make us look bad too. too. Do also any, any, I might make you look bad to conservatives. It might make you look bad to liberals, it might make you look bad to other Christians might make you look bad. I mean, there's no nothing really off limits. In terms of the potential

Vanessa Caruso: 22:44

that is so, so intriguing. One immediate example that comes to mind is when I mean, you know, this so well, from being a pastor, when people who are involved need to say no, for a season, yeah, to something. Yeah, that is an example that comes to mind. Like, you know, we've been part of those conversations, and have probably been there ourselves in certain ways, where like, you're all excited about something and you feel like this is a great opportunity for me to learn how to help or serve or lead or whatever. And then you're paying attention to your life holistically. And you feel like, I need to step back from this position or something for a time. But it can feel really counterintuitive to the types that come to church to say, this is weird, but I actually think I need to say, Yeah, because one time,

Andy Withrow: 23:41

you're right, because we want to, we want to we want to equate obedience with doing stuff like yeah, doing this or that or serving in this way. Yeah. But it may not always be so yeah. It would make sense that there's seasons of saying yes to things and saying no to things. Because we can't just keep adding things.

Vanessa Caruso: 24:10

Yeah. We try. Oh, I try. That's my go to is to add to my list. So maybe we could come back to this and try to think of other practical implications. Or applications for what it means to Yeah, be God bears.

Andy Withrow: 24:32

Yeah, right. Bearing I just jotted down some idea, like just the idea of bearing God, wherever we go in our neighborhoods and our families, being aware of this in our places of work and our school wherever, wherever we go. I think of the Great Commission at the end of Matthew 28. He says Go into all the world preach the gospel baptizing. discipling basically. But that word in the original Greek Yeah, Andy, which I don't know what it is, or remember what it is, I just remember the the tense of it or the impulse of the word go isn't, that's not the main imperative. Go out somewhere and do this work. It's, it's the main imperative is, is on the the discipling on the preaching on the on the work, the verb to go, it means as you go, as you're going through life, wherever you find yourself do this work, it's the same idea of your bearing my presence with you. And that's the point that his presence is supposed to go anyplace and bring light into dark places, whether that's in your family, at your work at your school, where you volunteer, whatever you're doing, there's nothing is off limits. I am to you are to be doing this. bringing me with you wherever you go.

Vanessa Caruso: 26:11

Andy, that should be the way it's translated as you go. That's so much better.

Andy Withrow: 26:18

I mean, I'm not. I'm not a Greek scholar. Okay. But supposedly people who are Yeah. Know this. As you go as you're going,

Vanessa Caruso: 26:30

as you go about your day as you go about your job.

Andy Withrow: 26:35

Yeah, I think for a lot of us an important mind shift back to your point about, oh, well, it's the people who are going to these places to do this special work. Right. But the emphasis is much more on the day to day know, as you're going through life. Yeah. Do these things? Well, to our point, bring, be aware of my presence with you. Yeah. And let, let's just start with that mind shift that imagination shift. And we'll let we'll tease out the implications as they come up. Because maybe that moves us to prayer. For other people, maybe that moves us to TOS any other any other routes we've been talking about in this table series, a love that reaches out and does something that isn't afraid to fail at trying something different. I think that's for a lot of us. That's, that's those are the barriers, right? It's like, well, I don't know how to do that. Well, what if I'm rejected, with? It's a dumb idea, you know, whatever it is, wow.

Vanessa Caruso: 27:30

You're reminding me to that one of the best parts about spiritual direction, maybe people don't know what spiritual direction is, but meeting with someone to talk about your life with God. Like one of the main rich benefits of that is just offering someone your undivided attention. Like, I mean, therapy similar, like you go in and you pay them and part of this exchange is that in therapy, so you have someone's undivided attention, for you to process, and for them to look at you and to listen to you and to ask questions. And they have a whole bunch of amazing knowledge that can help you process. But even thinking about the dynamics of spiritual direction in the world, like, you know, I school drop off and pickup as a main part of my daily life. So there's that you're just around kind of acquaintances. And the idea of bringing awareness and attention while you're talking to people, right? It's kind of radical for me. Yeah. You know, to think that it is, it's radical in the world to actually look at someone while they're talking to you, and to try to listen to what they're saying. And then to sometimes reflect back to them what you see, like, oh, wait, why did you just say that? Or? Yeah, what were you gonna say, you know, they're like, nevermind, and you're like, No, I'm actually engaged, like, what were you? What were you gonna say? That kind of presence to me is an example of baring God, like, just trusting that the little things like we talked about having the eyes and or the hands and feet of Jesus a lot, you know, and I think of when we had to move out of our apartment, and the idea of cleaning, the house alone made me want to disappear and die. And then women from the table came and helped me clean and it was like the hands and feet of Jesus. You know, like, this night overwhelmed me so much clean. I don't know how to clean an oven or behind a fridge. And I have to clean this in like seven hours before the next tenants or whatever. And having five women they're like joking and cleaning with this. It was Jesus. Not very disguised at all.

Andy Withrow: 29:51

Very well. disguised.

Vanessa Caruso: 29:53

I just could have cried the whole time. But so I think of hands and feet all the time, but I think eyes and ears Like how can we be the eyes that that watch people when they talk and share? Yeah. And how can we be the ears that listen that just listen to people are not adding any time to our day? Just the quality of being in the world? Yeah, goes up a couple notches. And that gets called a difference. That's

Andy Withrow: 30:19

a huge one. I mean, being seen and heard. Yeah, some people don't feel that at all. Or don't get that at all.

Vanessa Caruso: 30:24

Yeah. So I've made all the difference in my world when I'm seen in hurt I feel like we've been talking a lot should we? What how are we doing are gonna ring the bell? Yeah, I forgot I'm gonna get about the Benedict Bell.

Andy Withrow: 30:44

Yeah, we wanted to talk about an aspect of, of bearing God with us or Christ with us. A practical aspect, like a discipline something that we can do. Because some people are into that practical application. love that stuff. Vanessa, for example, you like practical application? So we want to talk about Scripture memorization? Right? Yeah, that's gonna be like just me saying that's gonna be major turnoff for like, a lot of people. Yes, script memorization. I know, that's not very spiritual, memorizing things.

Vanessa Caruso: 31:22

Or it's the opposite. I think people have flashbacks to like sort drills or something sort

Andy Withrow: 31:27

drills. This is exciting. I'm suddenly have this,

Vanessa Caruso: 31:30

like, force Tom bible camp. You know, like, what is that what they're called? It's like John 316. In the first one to raise their hands. Yeah. Or raise their Bible in the air and recite John 316. Yeah, it's a point. Yeah. And the person with the most points is the most Christian.

Andy Withrow: 31:46

Oh, like there had a title.

Unknown: 31:48

Or you know, that's, that was the conversation. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 31:52

You actually get like, a thing that you were running next, as most Christian,

Vanessa Caruso: 31:56

you might get a stash or something and like, a boy scouts patch. They were called something like sword. Okay, I think people could be turned off because it sounds super kind of moralistic, maybe legalistic, churchy, otherworldly, like who memorizes scripture like it feels to me in a way, like the person on the street corner who's not very engaged with reality, and is preaching at you. That's the That's the bad side of it. Yeah. So what's the good side? Oh, my gosh, let's go to the good side. Okay.

Andy Withrow: 32:34

I think, I think when I think about it, I think about this image of, of, of how closely Jesus is tied to the word, both in his own life, he clearly knows it. But also theologically like the scriptures, there's a close connection between God and His Word like, and I think it has to do with the idea that God doesn't lie, that that he tells the truth, that he is able to represent himself through his words. And his words are so potent, and so powerfully you're actually getting his presence, his presence is tethered to His words, this, this comes out, as you read through from Genesis to Revelation. This is a consistent theme in Scripture that God's presence is tied to his words, so much so and so potent and powerful as his words that that it, that it becomes an image Josh shared this in the first ever think of our routed series. That becomes an image in Jesus Christ. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Wow. And he's tabernacled among us, and we've beheld as glorious as John one. Right? So there's this close association, that, that if we're if we're connected and really tied to the word in a deeper way, that we that there is, there is something of God's presence in Christ presence, come and dwells with us. In through the words, right? Yeah. It's complicated because even what you said about the Scripture, memorization, there's an idea of, of Bible poetry that we're using the Bible as like, as a weapon almost, yes. Sword battles, sword drills. And I get that I think there's a danger, just as there's always a danger for us to misuse anyone's words and abuse someone else's words. Yeah. Like, did you hear what Vanessa said about you? Yeah. And misrepresent maybe what you said or take it out of context or use it in a way that you did not intend that feels off? We can do that. Yeah, we have the capacity to do that. But that is not a good reason. Nor is it an excuse to no longer listen to Vanessa. Well, because her Words can't be taken out of context. I shouldn't I should just stop listening to her. That doesn't make any sense. But I feel like some of sometimes we can use that as an excuse. Like, ah, I'm more into. I connect with Jesus in other ways. Yeah. But this is the way that God has chosen to disclose himself. Yeah. So

Unknown: 35:20

yeah

Vanessa Caruso: 35:26

there's a loud car going by so waiting this is, this is

Andy Withrow: 35:30

part of just grins brings us back to reality.

Vanessa Caruso: 35:34

That's a great basis. were you gonna say something else?

Andy Withrow: 35:38

Just that I kind of already said the these are the words of life. Words of God words of Jesus. They have a potency to transform us. So I think we neglect them to our peril. Yes. But I won't be all doom and gloom. So you take it away? Oh, I'm the good cop. Yeah. Wow. Obviously, was that not clear?

Unknown: 36:12

I think of you as the good cop in most situations. So it's weird that maybe we're both good cop types.

Andy Withrow: 36:17

Oh, yeah. It's not gonna work. Yeah, so dynamic that does not really exist. Okay. Yeah.

Unknown: 36:26

What were you gonna say? Well, I

Andy Withrow: 36:27

just, the point is, how can we come to the scriptures for a deeper listening? Like, the idea of consuming something like you? And it's good way in Scripture.

Vanessa Caruso: 36:40

Yeah. But it's in a good way. Because consumerism, right doesn't

Andy Withrow: 36:43

feel like buying something No, like, Can like taking something into yourself that actually sustains you transforms you.

Vanessa Caruso: 36:51

Yes. Wow. Yeah. So scripture, memorization has been really good news for me. Like, it's, it's really been life giving to me, it hasn't been something that, like, if I'm, if I was more spiritual, I'd memorize more scripture, so that I'd look better in conversation. Like, that route does not sound good at all. But sometimes you hear pastors who know a lot of Bibles and or Bibles, they know a lot of verses, you know, and it, it can make you feel like but so getting back to the good news part, partly because I, I have heard the Bible for a long time, it's very easy for me to read a passage or hear what the sermon is going to be on, and kind of subconsciously to now, or say, Oh, I already know this one. Like, we're going to do Mary and Martha, we're going to talk about the prodigal son. And I'm like, why don't want like prodigal son, I've been there, I've done that. I hope other people don't have that kind of instinct. But with anything you're really familiar with you can, I can really take something for granted the people and the words that I'm very familiar with, and the Bible is one of them. So scripture memorization, for me as an adult has been a way for it to come alive. So kind of the opposite. Like instead of writing it off, it's allowed it to come alive. And I think one of the reasons is because we are in a in an age with so many words and resources, like you can find an interesting article or podcast. Oops, that's what we're doing on anything. And just think that if you take more and more and more and more and more in you'll be better, you'll get better you'll know more. When in reality, my system my like inner system just gets overloaded and I don't retain almost everything I get things don't sink in. So scripture memorization is taking something smaller. Yeah. And then sitting with it for a week instead of reading seven articles on Mary and Martha. It's it's memorizing the Mary and Martha Martha story or something. Yeah. And then, like you shared last week, some weird word or phrase just comes to life in a way that I could not have forced if I had my highlighter out in my like, 10 minute like Bible reading session, you know? Yeah, because it comes out like in the shower, it comes out while talking with someone. Yeah, I wrote down a few that have been meaningful for me like things I memorized that I you know, eventually was like, Oh, my gosh, one of the first ones was from Hebrews six. I memorized a passage. And this was when I started going to orange theory, which is an exercise place because I hate exercising. So it's really useful psychology that if you pay in advance to say I will come to one class a week to give you don't come you paid for it. So you're

Andy Withrow: 39:57

saying that you should pay for it. A class on memorization of Scripture. I didn't even think of that fit. Yes. And then people, then we'll do it. Yeah, more. We would.

Vanessa Caruso: 40:07

That's perfect. Well, so So I paid for this exercise class, so I had to go once a week. But I dreaded going because it seemed like a waste of time. Like, who just runs on the treadmill for 30 minutes. So that's when I started memorizing again, was I thought, if I'm have something kind of memorized that I can rehearse on the treadmill. I'm kind of going to redeem the time a little bit. Yeah. And it seems like flat time like, well, just just, you're just running. Yeah. So one of the first things I memorized was was from Hebrews six. And one of the lines that you know, didn't mean anything to me at first and overtime, came to mean something. To me. It was it's something like, we who have taken refuge are strongly encouraged to seize the hope set before us. Just sounds like Bible words. Yeah. sees the hope set before us. Then it occurred to me sees means like you choose to go and get something. Yeah. which I had not thought of hope, like that I thought of hope is something like you earn or that falls on you, or that you wait for I didn't think of hope as something that God was saying. You're going to have? I'm asking you to choose and to take hope. Yeah, not wait for it to not to feel hope from the inside out, which doesn't happen much in the world we live in. So it was just a little like cease hope was something that really came to me more to me like two weeks in right to rehearsing it. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 41:40

Yeah, that's really that's really good. I, I makes me think of it makes me think of actually a practical way of baring God with us is, is taking his words into us and letting them letting have like, just be in our bones. Yeah. Be in our hearts be in our minds. Saturate us, I guess, yeah. Marinate in a good way. I want I just I'd wrote down just like, my process, love it of memorization. And then I think you've got an exercise for us. And they'll they'll wrap up our time, I think, yeah. But we, in my lifetime, I have noticed we've gone from a habit of memorizing, to a habit of not memorizing, you are correct. Like, there's certain technologies that now exist that did not exist. I don't know if everyone's aware of this, when, you know, 30 years ago. And I used to have probably a dozen maybe 15 Phone Numbers memorized.

Vanessa Caruso: 42:54

And phone numbers are the worst things to memorize just a random assortment of numbers. I think the psalms are hard to memorize because it's like, so flowery. You know, like, the tense of the heavens of the stretching of the like, oh my gosh, there's so many adjectives in this. But numbers

Andy Withrow: 43:14

was memorizing numbers. We don't memorize as much stuff anymore now. And that's just one example. But but we still do like you You brought before we started recording the song lyrics, quote, remember quotes, quotable, like rememberable quotes and stuff, that that impact us or we'll sing songs all the time that we know. Oh, yeah. Musics an easy way to kind of remember things over and over again. But so anyway, I just mentioned that because I think there might be for a lot of us a learning curve to this. You're right should not discourage us. You're right. It's like, okay, we've gotten out of the habit. Generally, as a people who memorize things, yes, we I'm here to tell you that we can get back into the habit, you are right. And it's it's not a lost cause. Now, I want to, I'm just going to give you a few brief things, this is how I memorize Scripture. And the first thing is very important is selection. Because if you're like me, one thing that can keep you from moving ahead in a discipline is the paralysis of not knowing where to start.

Unknown: 44:16

Totally, there's a lot of Scripture. Yes.

Andy Withrow: 44:19

There's a lot. Right. And so if you're like, I'm gonna memorize a portion of Scripture today, so I can just have God's words in me and let them see if God you know, kind of engage with God a bit.

Unknown: 44:30

decision fatigue randomly. Oh, shoot, it's

Andy Withrow: 44:33

a big Bible. Yeah. So a good place to start is what's called a lectionary. And these are easy to find online. It's lectionary is just the readings through the church here. That's a great place to spot if you want to be on God time as well. And if you don't know what I mean by that, check out our last episode. Yeah, bear with me episode one. But that's an easy place to start. And they've got readings for every single day, multiple reasons but readings So pick one, pick something out of the Gospels is a good place to start one of the readings out of the Gospels, you could just do the Sunday readings. Once a week or one, you know, however you want to start, but do something that or pick the sermon series in your local church. Oh, what's coming up? What did they just preach on? Or what did we just what was the discussion about? Or a few days ahead of time? That could even be great? Because then you're coming? Oh, yeah, soaked in it. That would be cool. And then you can interrupt the preacher like, Excuse me? You use the wrong preposition there. Yes, actually, this or whatever you however you like to interrupt.

Vanessa Caruso: 45:43

Or Andy, on selection. Sorry to interrupt. No. Oh, good interruption. Honestly, one of the prayers God always answers, I think would be if we said, God, I'm open to memorizing something, but I don't know where to start. Could you show me this week? Something to memorize. I feel like God would be like, well, greenline like, yeah, like I will. I will bring something to you through someone. Yeah. If you actually want to know. Yeah,

Andy Withrow: 46:12

that's Yeah, great. Or if you if you have a devotional at home, based in Scripture, use those. Basically, the point is, I need some system, or else I'll get paralyzed. Totally. I don't want to have to think about I don't want to spend energy. I want to spend my energy on the thing that's hard. Not on the thing that doesn't need to be hard.

Unknown: 46:32

Good point, Andy.

Andy Withrow: 46:35

And then the actual practice one, it does get easier. I get better at it over time. Yeah. Like, if I'm in the habit of it, then I noticed I get faster actually memorizing a paragraph

Vanessa Caruso: 46:44

of the Bible. Yeah, it's it's a muscle and it gets better with use.

Andy Withrow: 46:48

So be patient. Give yourself some time. And then I just do one part of the time. And so it should be especially to get pretty short section of scripture. Like the the the Mary episode we talked about last week is I think 12 verses. So I wouldn't go much longer than that. And that that story, that narrative is a good place to start. Because it's kind of it's a bit easier to rather than starting with like an epistle like Oh, letter from Paul or Peter or something. For me anyway, the story structure, because there's more images there to kind of help remember. Yeah. And one part at a time. Like one very small part of the time. Yes. And then another small part? Yeah. In the six month. Okay. In the six month. Yeah. The angel Gabriel, the angel Gabriel. Okay. In the six month Angel Gabriel. Yes. can seem slow in mechanical and not very spiritual. Yeah. It's gonna feel not very spiritual. That's an important distinction. Yeah. But I think, I think that is very spiritual practice. And the first goal for me is just getting the whole thing. And it's gonna feel it might feel very counterintuitive, not very special. It's just, it's some work like, Okay, I want to get the whole thing. Okay, I've got the whole thing. And when I've got it, and I can go over it and not have to work too hard at remembering it. Now, it's easy to remember. That's the goal getting there. Because that's when when it's easy to recite, that's when I feel like the magic happens. Yes, where now I can just think about it any place, I go in the shower, laying on my bed, when I can't sleep in line at the grocery store, as I'm shopping at the grocery store, you know, things that don't require mental driving. Instead of turning on the radio or listening to the next bear with me episode, I can say, Oh, maybe I won't pop something on maybe I'll go over it in my head and just kind of slow down and think about why. Why is he using those words? Yeah. So I shared last time, that's when I slow down enough to think about in the six months or less in relation to med go back and open my Bible go back. So I didn't memorize the first chapter one, like what is this? Oh, it's, it's the only option is it's in relation to Elizabeth's pregnancy. Yeah. And then that kind of that's where I started thinking about the Kairos time the god timing type stuff and how we measure time, you start asking other questions like why, why such a focus in on an on the Orient, Luke's orienting us and naming things the angel Gabriel sent to a city in Galilee, named Nazareth to aversion patrol to a man whose name was Joseph of the house of David and the virgin's name was Mary. It's like all this like, yeah, choreography of is is Luke and then you start asking questions. Well, why that is Luke emphasizing Mary's low status, because he's naming the man in house he's in Oh, naming the city and where it but oh, by the way, the mayor is the virgin's name was Mary. But she's going to have a central role in this against all expectation. Yeah. Right, because this is how God likes to work. bring light and dark corners type thing. So all these things come bubble up, when I'm slow down enough to memorize it and think about it throughout my day or throughout my week. And then and then that's where I start to sense. Okay, God is shifting my imagination for how he works. God is speaking to me specifically about the the nuances of my family life, or my work life or this relationship I have with this person, because now I'm seeing it through new eyes.

Vanessa Caruso: 50:34

Yes. When you describe it, it's like that's a tool. Why would I not use that tool? It just sounds too good to be true.

Andy Withrow: 50:42

It's i I showed last time I feel like we're at least in this season. That's the primary way I sense God speaking to me is scripture. memorization, is when I slow down enough. And scripture memorization, I think is just a tool to get to that spot of slowing down and listening for me like, yeah, it maybe maybe some people can get there just by reading their scripture, reading the Bible slowly. But for me, I it forces me to slow down and go back over it in a way that is fresh. And I hear things that I didn't hear before.

Vanessa Caruso: 51:16

And it's a real non striving, way of learning. Yeah, because it doesn't happen when we are like, gritting our teeth. It happens while we're doing the dishes, like while we're, we're like, not redeemed, but it gives meaning to like the rest of our lives that I tend to discount. Like all this stuff is like necessary evil. Okay, when you were talking about the, for the like, just memorizing the mechanical way. Yeah. You reminded me that Stephens, an actor? You know, I do know that. So he memorized

Andy Withrow: 51:51

partials out, right. Yeah, he does. Put them in the show notes.

Vanessa Caruso: 51:56

That'd be fun. So enacting it's called where you memorize by rote first. And so the idea is you memorize without an effect or meaning or trying to figure it out or any sense. Yeah. So he just in so he has me when I have to read with him for an audition. I just have to read by rote. So instead of of being like, Chaisson don't do that, you know, I have to be like, Jason, don't do that. And then he does it. And he's, it's a discipline to not to not go to that next level yet. Because the first level is memorizing by rote. It's really restraining yourself and saying, This is a mechanical part. Once I have this by rote, yeah. Then once it's in you, then you're free for it to come to life as an

Andy Withrow: 52:40

actor. Yeah, you can do for my expert. I'm not an actor. So applying that to the Scripture memorization, it's like, okay, now I can start to inhabit this text, I can start to be there with Mary in that moment, and try to have a more of an imagination for what's happening. what's being said. Yeah, yeah, that resume

Vanessa Caruso: 53:00

comes to life. But I love that you highlighted don't expect that from the beginning. You need a half an hour walk or something for the the rote time. And then there's rehearsing that happens. And I just want to show you these are my flashcards people can't see them, but they, so it has like the scripture on one side. Okay, and then, you know, the actual one on the back,

Andy Withrow: 53:24

but some we take some pictures and put them put links to the search people get an idea,

Vanessa Caruso: 53:29

because and I bring these with me, because the other truth is, is that you do forget, like I do forget ones that I memorized six months ago. Yeah. Like I only really remember the one that I'm in plus, like someone or something, right? Like the Lord's Prayer, we still know by heart. So eventually, these I can all know by heart at all times. But refreshing them is really easy. Like I just forget how to start. And then I'm like, oh, Second Timothy, one is this. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 53:58

That's good point. I mean, I think there is a value in just having this repository in my head in my heart. Yeah, that but you're right. It's someone with me. Like, I can't remember what has been rising six months ago? No, but it's probably an easy refresher if I wanted to very easy and bits and pieces. Like I remember parts of Scripture that maybe I wouldn't have remembered. Yeah, but I think for me, the primary goal is, is hearing the voice of Jesus today. Yes, that's the primary goal. That's the primary goal. Like those are good, like secondary goals like, oh, I can I kind of remember, if I'm having this time, it makes me reminds me of this portion of Scripture. That brings me back to it or whatever. Or if I'm in the middle of a sword, drill drill, then maybe that's really great. Yes, a sash or something. Exactly. Oh, man, but what I want today is I want to hear the voice of the living God in my life for me and for those that that I'm with, and that's that's the point for me of memorization.

Vanessa Caruso: 55:03

That that's the main goal to me too is the now. Yeah, part that coming to life today. Okay, do you do you accept this sword drill said I'm about to put you. Okay, let's do it. Okay, so what I wanted to do was prove to anyone listening who actually is in a space where they could mumble under their breath. I want to prove to you that you can memorize so quickly, one verse. So I didn't tell Andy the verse, but I want to have him memorize in real time, this one verse, just as a way to show that it's possible. So if you're out there, and you are in a place where you can, you know, repeat after me with Andy, please do so. Okay. This is a really beautiful little verse that you've never heard before. I've never heard this verse. Wow. I mean, that's my guess.

Andy Withrow: 55:57

Okay, are you ready? Other than the Apocrypha or

Vanessa Caruso: 55:59

no, it's from Isaiah 50. Oh, verse four. Okay. Does that sound familiar?

Andy Withrow: 56:04

Well, I know that I, Isaiah sounds familiar. Chapter 15 Verse four says, but put them all together and I don't know.

Vanessa Caruso: 56:12

Okay, are you ready? That was the first line. There's a lot of alliteration in this one. So that helps a lot, right. That's why the psalm says that we're across sticks. We're across six because it's way easier to memorize something that's ABCDEFG

Andy Withrow: 56:25

but it's like rustic in Hebrew. So you have to learn Hebrew first and then it'll be easier.

Vanessa Caruso: 56:30

DoorDash can memorize Psalm 119. Right? We'll just do this. Okay, so the first line, the Lord God has given me the tongue of a teacher. Repeat after me, Andy.

Andy Withrow: 56:43

The Lord God has given me the tongue of a teacher.

Vanessa Caruso: 56:47

Yes, the Lord God has given me the tongue of a teacher.

Andy Withrow: 56:52

The Lord God has given me the tongue of a teacher.

Vanessa Caruso: 56:55

That's correct. That I may know how to sustain the weary with a word

Andy Withrow: 57:02

that I may know how to sustain the weary with the word with our with our word. So they may know how to sustain the weary with a word.

Vanessa Caruso: 57:13

Yeah, so weary with a word. Three W's and tongue of a teacher. Yeah. So do you remember

Andy Withrow: 57:20

Okay, the Lord has given me the tongue of a teacher, that I may sustain the weary with a word so close.

Vanessa Caruso: 57:27

The Lord God has given me the tongue.

Andy Withrow: 57:31

This is great. Yeah, this is exactly how it happens. Like oh, I forgot I dropped a word. Yeah, I changed the word Yeah. The Lord God has given me the tongue of a teacher that I may sustain the something of the weary the way the

Vanessa Caruso: 57:50

great okay? And it's that I may know how to build I may know how to sustain the weary the weary with a worth toward the weary with a word that I may know how to sustain the weary with a word from the top

Andy Withrow: 58:03

that I may know how to sustain the weary with the word, the Lord God has given me the tongue of a teacher that I may know how to sustain the weary with a word Can you do it again? The Lord God has given me the tongue of a teacher that I may know how to sustain the weary with a word

Vanessa Caruso: 58:20

rate next part is more Morning by morning he wakens wakens my ear

Andy Withrow: 58:27

Morning by morning he awakens weakens my ear.

Vanessa Caruso: 58:31

So there's two mornings and two weakens. Morning by morning he awakens dash wakens my year.

Andy Withrow: 58:41

Morning by morning he awakens wakens my year

Vanessa Caruso: 58:47

yes. Double Double awakens there can you do it from the top?

Andy Withrow: 58:51

The Lord God has given me the tongue of a teacher that I may know how to stay sustain the way the weary with a word. Yes. Morning by morning. He wakens wakens my year Yes. Really? There was yeah, no mistakes. No mistake. Okay. Okay, there's

Unknown: 59:12

one last line that's really surprising.

Andy Withrow: 59:14

Okay.

Vanessa Caruso: 59:15

Morning by morning awakens wakens my ear to listen as those who are taught

Andy Withrow: 59:20

to listen as those who are taught. Can you do more and more every morning? He wakens wakens my ear. I completely forgot

Unknown: 59:31

to listen. As those who are taught to listen as

Andy Withrow: 59:35

those were taught Morning by morning he awakens wakens my ear to listen as those who are taught Morning by morning he awakens wakens my ear to listen as those who are taught Do you think you can do from the beginning? The Lord God has given me the tongue of a teacher that I may know how to that I may know how to sustain the We're here with a word. Yes. Morning by morning he wakens wakens my ear.

Unknown: 1:00:06

Got it to Yes.

Andy Withrow: 1:00:11

To listen Yes. Has a deer pants for what to shoot? No. It's okay to listen as those to listen as those who are taught to listen as those who are taught so

Vanessa Caruso: 1:00:27

Morning by morning God is opening my ear to listen as someone who's ready to learn basically to listen as those who are

Andy Withrow: 1:00:35

taught and as those who are taught to listen as those who are taught

Unknown: 1:00:40

to and taught to enter begins taught to listen as those who are taught.

Andy Withrow: 1:00:45

The Lord God has given me the tongue of a teacher that I may know how to sustain the way know how to sustain the weary with a word. Yes. Morning by morning. Morning by morning. He awakens wakens. Might year yes. That I may learn. Right. No. To to listen. Yeah. Like or as as to listen as those who are taught? Yes. Okay. And so I would keep so that wouldn't make that's two verses. Yeah, it's one or two. Okay. So that's a good example of that's probably that's been five minutes of working right? Yeah. And I don't fully have it yet. But I'm close. Yeah. And probably another minute or two and I would have that section. Yeah. And then typically, I'd probably have maybe twice that long. For Well, depends. I mean, you could memorize short, short verses are great. And well, I

Vanessa Caruso: 1:01:48

think auditory memorization is even harder when you're looking at it. Yeah, it's you have the visual tool to help you recall because, you know, I saw the alliteration and that made it easy wakens my ear to listen as those who are taught. And if you write out the verse, that's another level. You get it through writing it out, then you get it through visual, and then you get it through hearing yourself. Repeat. But Andy, you did great. Thanks, Vanessa. Yeah. Isn't that a great verse though it is, Lord God has given me the tongue of a teacher who does not want to sustain the weary with a word. Everyone's tired. Yeah, I would love to be able to have the awareness to encourage you with the words of my mouth when I see you and I see that you're haggard or something, or that you're overwhelmed. That's so beautiful. Morning by morning, he awakens wakens my ear to listen as those who are taught every day, it says to me, that God has given me the capacity to wake up and to be aware, and to live the life God's given me. And I can just be a perpetual learner in it. That makes life so exciting.

Andy Withrow: 1:02:56

That does make life so exciting. We're out of time. Yeah, we got to we got to stop. Oh, gosh, it's been good. Okay. But we, we had some other things we will save it for next time. I think next time, don't hold us to this. But next time, we want to talk about spiritual consumerism, and that great disconnect, and the great disconnect so that a great disconnect is a documentary.

Vanessa Caruso: 1:03:24

It's Canadian made documentary on loneliness and neighborhoods in neighborhoods and, and I thought maybe technology's role in that and isolation. We're gonna find out we're viewing it at noon.

Andy Withrow: 1:03:37

Let's documentary reviewing at noon. So we're gonna talk about next time. Okay. Thanks, Vanessa. Thanks, Sandy. It was fun again. Yeah, two in a row. Yeah, who would have thought? And thank you for listening. If you like what you hear you got ideas for future shows, please email at us at Bear with me at table church.ca. And we don't want to do the work for SSI. We don't like to do work. So we don't want to do the work of figuring out how to be a better podcast. We want you to tell us as a well, we're new at this. So take your considerations. Yeah, who knows? Check out the show notes for resources and links we mentioned in this show. And any other bonus items we throw in there who knows I have some some really great stuff in there. Right? Bear with me is a table radio, podcast and extension of the life of the table church, a community in Victoria, British Columbia. To learn more about our community. Please go to table church dot See you next time.