Andy Withrow: 0:02

Welcome to the bear with me podcast on table radio, where we aim to integrate belief and practice in the Christian life. It's working great. Are we on? Yeah, we're on. Hi, Vanessa. Hi, Andy. Welcome back. Thank you. Or are you can welcome you back.

Vanessa Caruso: 0:25

Welcome back. Andy. Thanks. It's great to see you. It's good to be thanks for being here.

Andy Withrow: 0:28

Yeah. Thank you. It's good to have you as a guest. Every show, or it's good to be your guest every show, however, both however we think about it. This my show and you're my guest, or is this your show? And I'm your guest.

Vanessa Caruso: 0:39

It feels a little bit more like yours. No.

Andy Withrow: 0:42

Your name comes first in the credits, does it? Yeah. Wow. No, that's because of alphabetized by last name. Caruso Withrow. She was usually my experience growing up in school every year. Right. Last one. Right, Withrow. Except for when Dale Zodrow was in a cycle. Shout oout to Dale! Dale, if you're listening - Miss you. Where do we go from there? That's it. That's all okay. Thanks, everyone, for tuning in this week. We're glad that you could be with us. And we'll see you next time. Just kidding. We're gonna We're just not with it. That's it. We're jumping into another Advent Text this Week. So we're getting ready for Advent and I've admin or we're in Advent. I don't know we're we're recording this in the end of October and Evans a month away for us. But who knows when this? Yeah, yeah, we'll talk to our producers and the people who help run our podcast. Yeah, people we are working on this show. Right downers. Yeah. And they'll get it out when they get it out. But they they think those they go through the focus groups and yeah, do all the hard work with that kind of stuff. So let's just leave that up to them. We're just here for them. We're here for the content basically. Alright, enough of that. Let's get into Luke chapter three we had the first six verses but Vanessa couldn't stop reading so she may pull in extra verses here she threatened to before we hit record it was through eight see no wonder well, maybe eight and. And. Noes. Great. Do you want to read it or do you want me to?

Vanessa Caruso: 2:32

You can go ahead.

Andy Withrow: 2:33

Should I go ahead? Yeah. Okay. This is Luke chapter three, one through six. Listen to this, this is good. In the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of over Judea, and Herod being Tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip Tetrarch, of the region of Etruria. And tracking itis, and Licinius Tetrarch of Aibileen. I looked it up. It's not Texas, it's different parts of the Middle East. During the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the son of Zechariah, in the wilderness, and he went into all the region around the Jordan proclaiming a baptism of repentance, for the forgiveness of sins, as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah, the prophet, the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare the way of the Lord, make his path straight. Every valley shall be filled in every mountain in Hill shall be made low, and the crooked shall become straight, and the rough places shall become level ways and all flesh shall see the salvation of God will do to vote on this verses here. Thank you. He said, therefore, to the crowds that came out to be baptized by him, You brood of vipers gets Yeah, it's dark it does click Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come bear fruits in keeping with repentance? Do not say to yourselves we have Abraham as our father for I tell you God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire

Vanessa Caruso: 4:14

Yes, thank you for adding that.

Andy Withrow: 4:17

Alright, so I so when I first wrote to you Vanessa about me because we're doing a different texts for today, and I was getting into the some of the Advent prep for my for my own preaching or teaching, and this one just stuck out to me as something maybe really interesting and fun to do. And one of the things that stuck out to me was this, these opening lines of, of all these rulers and religious leaders, right, Tiberius Caesar, the armistice Yeah, he's who's the emperor of the of the whole known world at the time. And then you have Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, which is where Jerusalem is in the southern part of it. his real heritage project of Galilee, kind of the northern part. And his brother Philip, you know, and then Licinius. And then the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, they were in charge of, of the religious center of Israel. And so just how Luke one is concerned for historicity, like, when did this happen? essentially giving you the year the date, this is what's going on. But also just this juxtaposition you have. Where would you expect God's word to come? Yeah. During during all of this, like, here's the people who are in charge. Here's the political and religious leaders of the day.

Vanessa Caruso: 5:47

Yeah, with these fancy names. Yeah. And titles and titles. And then it comes to John. Yeah. out in the boonies.

Andy Withrow: 5:57

Yeah. Who doesn't? Isn't doesn't have a title here. John, just the son of Zechariah. We know from earlier and Luke served in the temple, he's part of the priesthood or at least the Levitical tradition. I think a priest is a priest because he went in to serve inside the Holy of Holies. That's when he got the he interacted with the angel right about John's birth.

Vanessa Caruso: 6:23

Right. Right. That's the Zachariah. Yeah. And he was silenced. Or, yeah,

Andy Withrow: 6:29

he had some sort of thing where he, you know, you have a vision of the angel in the temple, and probably the first thing to say, isn't how I know it's going to be true. Right of it. And it Gabriel gets a little bit. I'm, I stay in the presence a little. Okay, here's a sign for you. You're not gonna be able to speak. Right? Like don't? Don't take off angels. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, one of the takeaways definitely. But anyway, we're here. And here's all these, here's all the big picture stuff that's happening. And this is where God decides to send his word. So I think that was that was pretty fascinating. Yeah, for me.

Vanessa Caruso: 7:12

So what did it evoke for you, just realizing that again?

Andy Withrow: 7:17

Well, I mean, being part of Generation X, I'm very, you know, sort of the anti establishment, kind of, in me. But I think I think there's, it's not hard for people to identify with, or to resonate with some of this idea of, of truth coming to sort of the lowly or more the humble, like, that's built into so much of our stories, or movies and shows and books and everything else. Yeah. is sort of that theme of the the humble, receives the truth, or sees what other people don't see. Yeah. And at least in this story, that's, that seems to be part of it. Yeah. You know, in other parts of the Bible, Jesus, or God does speak to priests does speak with from within structures. And so it really, when I say, I wrote down that God sends His word without respect for title or position, yeah, get really means that like, it's not anti title or position. It's like, No, I' looking for a specific thin within somebody to receive fro me. And that may come to th high priests in a given era, bu it may not. And in this case maybe it reveals something abou the Israel of John's and Jesus' day, that God's word didn't com from within those structures but comes out not just t somebody who doesn't have th title or position but als geographically in th wilderness, like not i Jerusalem, not where the templ is not in the centers o commerce, or politics o religion or whatever. Yeah. S what might that say about th nation at that time? And wher would we expect God's word t come? In our tim

Vanessa Caruso: 9:13

now? It's good question.

Andy Withrow: 9:17

Thanks. What's your answer?

Vanessa Caruso: 9:20

I don't know. It's hard to really wrap my mind around this because being a Christian, you know, we are part of the inside group of religious people in our faith tradition, you know, like we're inside the church. And we're like, the dominant party in that way. And so to read this and see that, that God came outside that it's confusing for me to to figure out am I like Mary and John or am I like, with my affluence and my privilege and everything? And I'm more like, the religious leader types? Yeah. Who have like a fairly easy life kind of thing. Sometimes I feel like marry, you know? Yeah. And sometimes I've I think I might be more I might be diluted

Andy Withrow: 10:21

Caiaphas Yeah,

Vanessa Caruso: 10:22

yeah. Yeah. Do you do you get confused about that? Like, I guess maybe that's part of the problem of trying to find yourself in the story.

Andy Withrow: 10:32

Yeah, well, I think at the very least, this has to come as a warning. Right, be careful, especially coming from within a religious institution that that doesn't give that does not baptize you into infallibility and seeing all things. Clearly. Yeah. Right. So but there's, I mean, throughout church history shows the impulse of reformation right. Especially since the Reformation, but even before that, like within the within the church, and, and even in the Old Testament, like a lot of the prophets are, that is the thing like that is the theme is like there's something wrong with the institution with the with the thing itself, and it's the province calling that back, or pronouncing like it's too late, your comes, here comes comes the end the judgment, then x is late at the root of the tree, see you too. So I think that helps. If you are coming from within an institution, it helps keep you very low. Yeah, humble. Hopefully, yeah. To be open to outside voices, would be a value. Yeah. Knowing that God does not not reading your blank, check the truth here. So how do I have what are the practices that we can be involved in to make sure that we're listening to John's in the wilderness, or we're a part of that we went in Not, not finding ourselves opposing God in His Word. seems important.

Vanessa Caruso: 12:09

I love that, that that's where he took it is to hear it as a warning. At least partly. And to you know, it makes me think of kind of the false comfort that comes up in that second part about being children of Abraham, like, just kind of coasting on that. And there is there is a comfort that can come from being part of a group and having some security. And so practices that, that keep us a little bit uncomfortable, and vigilant and open that does feel relevant. Yeah. It reminds me to this week in the lectionary was Jesus saying, you know, that part about the, it's like a wedding banquet kind of parable or something. And it says, people will knock and want to be led in? And they'll say, but we ate and drank with you, and you taught in our cities, and the bridegroom says, but I didn't know you let go away from me. So it felt like a similar kind of eerie, like, Oh, I'm, I'm so I eat and drink. I do communion with other disciples. And I listened to Jesus's teachings regularly. So it's possible to do those things into still not be known. by Christ. It sounds like it's the implication. Yeah. So it feels like a similar kind of warning, like, Oh, yeah. But the other part is the theme in this passage, the valleys will be raised up, and the hills brought low. I feel like we're talking about one aspect of what it means to be brought low, to be humbled to be open. The other piece is that there's parts of us and our society and our church that might need to be dignified. And have some, also some take some encouragement from this. And some confidence that feels like the raising up but

Andy Withrow: 14:11

yeah, yeah, well, the I mean, the church in North America isn't what it once was. The church in Canada isn't what it once was. Right? Yeah. So there is there is the sense where you can feel very much if you're if you are part of the church that does feel a bit like the wasteland, like the wilderness a bit. There's like a remnant are much more elite, especially here on the West Coast are much more of the minority. If you go to church on a Sunday, yeah. And the majority. Yeah. And so that that story has changed quite a bit in the last several decades. Yeah. And so I think it's passages like this, that in even Jesus birth, you know that Just these kind of dark corners not televised, right, this isn't the center stage. And so there is actually some comfort and like God likes to work in these moments when you if you're leading a church or a small group or something, and it just feels like oh, there's not a lot of energy here, it's kind of quiet, we have some faithful people, it's hard. It's hard. But then to remember that this is where God likes to work, right is because he's often not, he's often doing the stuff not on center stage, on purpose, or by design, and sort of take some, some encouragement from that. Yeah. And that some of the humility that's built into some of that. Feeling a bit on the outside or on the outskirts, actually helps make you a better reader or a better listener, as in, as in John's case here. So So I think that's pretty neat. And even just the just the idea, cuz the first thing we're done was God sends His Word. And that's true, not just in this passage, but all over all over the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. And I think that's something that idea by itself is something that's pretty amazing. That that is hard to believe, or might be hard for us to, to really believe because you really think about that. Just the significance that God would choose to communicate and want a relationship based on communication. Yeah. That seems pretty important. Yeah. It's not like they thought about that before. Yeah. With your with your line of work. Yeah, I would guess,

Vanessa Caruso: 16:39

a little bit. Yeah, the assumption I'm no Eugene Peterson has like such a great quote about this, that I don't remember by heart. But you know, it's kind of like a changing worldview from thinking that we need to do stuff in order to get God to show up, or intervene or something. Changing that mindset to the assumption that God is always working, and speaking, and communicating and speaking. And the invitation to us is to wake up and hear and see what God is already doing. That's a pretty big shift. And God sending God's Word through from through many messengers. Yeah, John's just in the line of this

Andy Withrow: 17:30

makes me wonder if God wasn't also sending a sword to Annas and Caiaphas. The high priests

Vanessa Caruso: 17:35

interesting. But

Andy Withrow: 17:38

well, yeah, or this wasn't heard. Yeah. wasn't recognized as I like that. Because it reminds me of the and we might do a little sneak preview. But we Venice, I might explore some of the parables in Matthew's Gospel. Yeah. And in one of them, and the, the kind of most popular one is the parable of the sower and the seed. The seed is God's word. And where is it sown?

Vanessa Caruso: 18:01

Everywhere,

Andy Withrow: 18:02

literally everywhere. It's just like, it's not like some seed was sown here, but not here. Like the whole point of the prayer was like, one of the points is everywhere. question isn't whether the word is coming. It's a question of if it's received, how is it received or not received? Cool. And so if you want to kind of apply that to Caesar, Pilate, the governor, the tetrarchy, in this area, the high priests. But here's here's John receiving it, doing something with it. And here it's here's the crop of all the fruit because everyone's going out now to John in the wilderness. Everyone from Jerusalem and Judea, everyone from all the regions around the Jordan are coming out in the middle of nowhere just to hear the sky. Which begs the question, because I think a lot of us could read about John the Baptist and just think, crazy person. Yep, definitely. Eccentric weird. Why would we, why would anyone trust How do we know? Definitely. Because you've got we've got plenty of those types around. And so is it just like, Oh, we're not listening? Are they legit? But we also know that their stories of not healthy. Yeah, got the Jim Jones back in the day drinking the Kool Aid. Right. So it's like, you can't just without discretion or discernment, just listen or follow anybody who says hey, the saith the Lord.

Vanessa Caruso: 19:34

Yeah. Yeah, like the Mars Hill podcast is kind of about a leader who had such a strong personality and persuasive you know, kind of John the Baptist he Yeah. So it's a great example. I love the idea of the word being sent, like seed thrown all over the place and But it landing in don't Yeah. Well, that gets back

Andy Withrow: 20:03

to what you were talking about earlier about kind of your your focus and your a lot of your work is like, well, let's assume God is speaking. Because it just seems like in the Bible that's the assumption is he's a relational God. Yeah and personal God desires connection Yeah. In and so if that's true then what are the obstacles to receiving or hearing God's word

Vanessa Caruso: 20:27

which, for me goes back to that hills and valleys like that is to me like a construction metaphor that says, What is getting in the way of accessing and responding to? Yeah, God in your life? Yeah, make it level, like smooth out the rough places like, figure out what's keeping or hindering you not how to get it's a different posture to think of like, Yeah, I'm going to climb up this ladder of stuff to do, right. And I'm going to reach the top, but I'm going to get something it's kind of like assuming that. Yeah. Okay, I'm getting a little confused by myself. Can I move to No, we're not there yet.

Andy Withrow: 21:13

Move to why? Well, I

Vanessa Caruso: 21:14

was just thinking we're already

Andy Withrow: 21:15

jumping. Okay, so just go for it. Okay.

Vanessa Caruso: 21:19

So when I read about this passage, I read that, you know, with John shouting prepare a way for the Lord, that it was typical. You'd probably already know this for kings leader types to have a heralds that went before them kind of announcing the arrival of this entourage. But the only people in that time who would actually need a paved road are people with entourages. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 21:42

So emperor was coming. Yeah, it was a real thing that they would Oh, would your city prepare if the emperor was coming? Well, look at the Olympics. How would Victoria prepare if the Queen the Queen was coming like that? You didn't go to

Vanessa Caruso: 21:56

I met the Queen, the prince and princess at the crib center. You did? Yeah. Just today? No. When we first moved here, and Leah was in preschool there. They came. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. He was amazing.

Andy Withrow: 22:09

That was a big deal.

Vanessa Caruso: 22:10

It was a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm thinking of the Yeah, the Olympics in Vancouver. Huge deal. Construction wise. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. Okay, we're getting off topic. But basically, it was a real thing that a road would have to be paid. Yeah. And this prepare the way of the Lord reminds me of other places. Maybe it's John that says that talks about the highway for our God. Yeah, like creating an accessible way for people to write access, and connect.

Andy Withrow: 22:43

Yeah, and it and after brush up on my prophets, but from what I remember, part of that highway motif or metaphor was also Israel coming back out of exile highway back to their land nice, which they're in Now in this passage, but there's still this theme of exile for this people. They're there in their land, but it's not their land belongs to Tiberius Caesar. Right. So it's their, their it's a colonial colonialism in their in their moment. Yeah. And, and so there is some sadness about that. And grief, and feeling at all is not well, with God's people. And there isn't there is some tension and divide between God and His people, which plays into a lot of John's language here. Right? Of he's coming. There's this highway that's needs to be or is being constructed. And maybe it is tied to this idea of also you are going to be part of that highway, because you're going to come out of its time to come out of exile. Yeah, so that language of repentance is, is just means change. Like, get with the program. This is happening. Get ready. It's coming. But we brought that forward to our moment. Yeah. And think of what is it that where where is our estrangement with God, which is personal, new individual to individual. But also, what does it mean to prepare?

Vanessa Caruso: 24:10

Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 24:11

Now that sort of, we're talking about Advent.

Vanessa Caruso: 24:13

Love it. I meant to look up prepare, but I forgot to like what the word means. But doesn't it sound like it means pre cut down? Prepare,

Andy Withrow: 24:21

prepare, prepare. It's interesting. I

Vanessa Caruso: 24:22

never thought about that. I feel like it means that in a way, I just mean, kind of the more literal, yeah. Are you looking it up?

Andy Withrow: 24:28

Well, maybe just so I was

Vanessa Caruso: 24:31

kind of thinking of it, meaning pre cut down, which is just so appropriate for a season of Advent. When culturally it's like the biggest shopping consumer holiday of the whole year, and it's typically experienced in the North West, at least as a really busy time of year. Yeah, like, there's productions there's parties They're shopping. So, to pre cut down has just made me wonder. Similarly, like we do for Lent, where we anticipate the season that we're going to get involved in, and we, you know, maybe decide on something we're going to fast or some way to simplify our discipleship during that season. Advent feels like an invitation to do the same thing. Before Advent actually starts to, to pre decide. yeses and noes. Yeah. Enter, Enter. Have a list of knows.

Andy Withrow: 25:39

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I like it. I mean, in my program, I'm looking up the Greek which isn't, you know, Oh, yeah. And what did you say? Go on? I don't have internet right now. We're in a new studio. Yeah, I haven't figured I'm sure they've got

Vanessa Caruso: 25:53

a they do Wi Fi here. But I think I got Wi Fi. So I could look it up. Look it up.

Andy Withrow: 26:00

The Yeah, the Greek word is the glasses get ready, Olden readiness. But this just what you're saying makes me think of like, there is a way culturally, a lot of us prepare for Christmas. It's canceled around a lot of consumerism, that sort of thing. Or it gets complicated by that. But it makes you wonder, is there a different way of preparing? That maybe cuts back on some that are transformed some of that stuff into a different sort of anticipation? Yeah. And listening. Yeah. And preparing ourselves like so if we took the the metaphor that John's using this, quoting from Isaiah here of every, you know, this massive construction project to make a highway for God and his entourage and maybe all his people to come? Is that pointing to something in our own individual and collective hearts and minds and practice of is there a way to transform radically transform ourselves internally, to get ready, and to prepare for this advent of this? This visitation?

Vanessa Caruso: 27:08

Yeah. Do you know what I'm thinking of now is, you know, the whole mood of John the Baptist is like this urgency, shouting, calling for a baptism of repentance. I think one of the reasons why sometimes Christmas can fall flat for me, is because I'm not in touch with my need for Christ, because of my false comfort, and privilege, and other things. Like I'm just generally pretty self sufficient until something like a pandemic, when I do wake up, a lot of us woke up to Okay, who are we? What are we here for? what's important and what's not. And yet, we can just slip right, I can slip right back into like, Oh, pretty good for us. Pretty good for me and my tribe. So business as usual. So to get ready for Advent, and for Christmas to kind of the thought of it kind of landing. What would it look like to not like instigate a crisis, the range of actors is that's one way to go. Yeah, not to be reckless or something like that. But to get a little bit more in touch with my longings and what I'm waiting for. Like, one idea would be to, you know, make a list of things. I'm waiting for things like, you know, I'm waiting for there to be a time when children won't be neglected or abused. I mean, that's like a big one. Or personally, I'm waiting to not be kind of addicted to what people think about me and to people pleasing or something like that. Like, what would it look like to to name and kind of cultivate as my own? Need? Yeah. Need for God. Yeah. fragility going into Advent, instead of kind of just going off the coattails of sentimental, warm feelings. Good memories. Yeah. So that's what that's one idea.

Andy Withrow: 29:35

Yeah. I like that. So the tangible thing is making a list that connects that just as awareness of some of your longings and desires around, anticipating what would be better than what we're experiencing currently in this life. Yeah. And when you said about creating crises for yourself, didn't make me think of the disciplines a little bit. Yes, you can't do that's it is well, the The the disciplines of abstinence are sort of going without things that you that are comforts then that sort of distract you or maybe dull some of your senses and some of your longings that that elicit like that can maybe tap into yourself again. So Advent and lent are both seasons where, where there's sort of an encouragement of extra of those kinds of practices of disciplines, not just the abstinence ones, but also the disciplines of engagement, where you can kind of reorder some of that, and be a bit more in tune with, with longings and desires, and ideally for the purpose of like, what would God be speaking? What is God speaking to me now? Yeah, in light of the situation? Yeah. You mentioned the addiction, being addicted to what other people think of you, which I think is a pretty common addiction. Yeah. Right. That's, it's fair to say that that's one that that's pretty widespread.

Vanessa Caruso: 31:02

I would think so. Yeah. Like a lack of

Andy Withrow: 31:05

industries around. Yeah. posting things and what other people think about it? Yeah. And what would be Have you thought of or engaged in the disciplines around? Okay, how do I sort of put a limit on ways where I am getting that feedback that I like, or that I crave so much?

Vanessa Caruso: 31:31

I haven't thought of, I don't, nothing comes to mind, like real current and relevant. I know that. I'm gonna regret saying this, that through my husband, someone he was at, you know, a neighbor's house, and the neighbor's wife said something about me having such great style. And like, asked him about that, like, what does she do? Where does she shop? How does and I just when he told me that, I was like, Why did you tell me that because now, I'm just gonna do have such. I'm just gonna, like, think about it every time I see her. And it's gonna have to be work for me to like, stuff like that compliments like that are not good for me. Because they make me more self conscious. And I want to try to like live up, instead of not ever knowing. See why I'm gonna regret saying that. It just feels stupid and embarrassing. But there's, there's something there. I feel like I remember you talking about humility. I feel like humility is at the core of this, like the virtue of humility, not being thinking lowly of yourself, but thinking less of yourself.

Andy Withrow: 32:41

We've talked about the ministry of insults before. Yeah, I mean, that seems that that would connect to some degree definitely with this. Yeah. Do we, we've talked about this on this podcast, and I probably,

Vanessa Caruso: 32:52

yeah, those are good. For me. It's the opposite of compliments. Like there's, there's a ministry that comes from having conflict with people are not living up to people's expectations. Or even, you know, ultimately, like when I if I make a mistake and hurt somebody else, that process really helps detached me from a false sense of identity. And frees me up to kind of live a bit more into my true identity in Christ. That's good one.

Andy Withrow: 33:25

Good one. Like the one that stands out, as maybe obvious to me is, is what we did what we did last year, we talked with Naomi about minimalism, which is very broad thing, but even an aspect of the social media aspect of that, because I know, for a lot of us that that can be a feeder of you know, yeah, I know, it's popular to say how bad social media is, but it's great for a lot of things. But I mean, this can be a thing that that maybe feed some of that addiction for some of us is definitely I got to post this I gotta see how it's how it's doing and that sort of thing. Yeah, it could be one aspect.

Vanessa Caruso: 34:06

You know, I've done on my phone since some that Convo My phone's on black and white. Do you know this is a thing? Oh, no. Yeah, you have to like follow this little thing. But it tells you how to get all the color off of your phone. And it's like, so you can't picture like it's there's no point. If you can barely read my own text.

Andy Withrow: 34:27

That's interesting. So it keeps your real life is in color and the phone life is in black and white to remind you that yeah, there's a degree of artificiality about this.

Vanessa Caruso: 34:35

I didn't even think of that, but it works. It's pretty Yeah, it helps. Yeah, technology is a big one. And there's all those process addictions like I always thought of addictions as like, oh, I drink too much wine or I go shopping without enough discernment or something like that. But the idea of process addictions is are those things that we do compulsively just to avoid kind of facing ourselves or our pain or our lives, like the word of God that might be in our lives. And they, they can be just being busy, or watching a show every night or something like that, like a little ritual, the rituals we go through. Yeah, that just keep us tied up. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 35:23

Yeah. Yep. And, as always, a lot of us carry a lot of guilt around this because it's like, I know I shouldn't be doing X y&z I know I should be doing ABC in. So we're always trying to be mindful of not placing these huge burdens on ourselves and each other, but reminding ourselves that we can't just add time, we have to transform our time. And to take courage in small steps, like I'm going to do one thing, yeah, to change my the rhythm of my week or my day, and implement that and, and reminds me of another parable that God makes big things out of the small mustard seeds. So just saying, Okay, what if I just do this one little thing, one little tangible thing that's gonna that is going to help prepare the way of the Lord in my life or in my in my world and see what God does with it. Those are sometimes the really can be really encouraging spaces of WoW, God did a lot with that. Yeah, thing made me think of this passage made me think of even just our family or individual preparation when we have guests or visitors like what do we do? In our house? In our homes? Yeah, we put out the nice tablecloth, or in my case, we might put out a tablecloth. Some people have special fancy plates for for guests. And then of course, the more special or rare the guests maybe or fancy. Yeah, you do a bit more.

Vanessa Caruso: 37:06

Yeah, clean vacuum candles.

Andy Withrow: 37:09

It's true. Yeah,

Vanessa Caruso: 37:10

that's like one of the best parts about hosting is the cleaning that you do.

Andy Withrow: 37:14

We're gonna get our house clean. Finally. Yeah, someone's coming over. But just as a metaphor for trying to think about because I think I had a good conversation with a friend of mine this week about our Greek conceptions of God can sometimes sell short circuit, the relationship because we think of like, omnipresent, he's everywhere he wants omniscient. He knows everything before I pray, why would I pray? He's omnipotent. So like, he's gonna do what he want, you know? And, and I think sometimes those can get in the way of an actual relationship and to remember that God limits himself on purpose, I think for the, for relationships, so we can have some agency and he desires to hear from us. And so something that I just think about my prayer life this last week, and how, why is it hard to pray? And I think part of is sometimes I'm just like, how do you approach a god?

Vanessa Caruso: 38:05

Okay to question the Creator.

Andy Withrow: 38:07

It's not like just talking with Vanessa or talking to Josh, we're talking with my wife. It's, it's a different category. And I don't always know how to approach it. And I think what I was practicing this week was what I may just sensing, maybe God nudging me in this direction is, why don't you talk to me? Like, I don't already know what's going on inside you like that? Just for your own benefit in practice? Just assume, I don't know, unless you want to disclose it to me. That helped me Yeah, personally, like, just like, okay, they just gave me a freedom to, to, to pray in that were to have a conversation with God in that way. And so that was helpful.

Vanessa Caruso: 38:45

Love that Andy.

Andy Withrow: 38:50

Just as one as one, one example, maybe. But I think that these images of or these parables or metaphors of construction preparation, they give us a sense, when we actually prepare for someone who's physically coming can give us an image of well, how would we prepare for, for God's visitation for God's presence? And if we don't overthink it too much, in terms of God is all knowing he's always always here. Well, let's enter it because we're human. We need some sort of tangible sense of something happening in an event we're kind of creatures of time and space, maybe in a way that God isn't. So we're going to prepare in a human way for the for the visit of God and so what are the what are the some of those tangible things in your life? Making a list? Yeah, very Christmassy. Make a list. I wish list a wish list that not dire list,

Vanessa Caruso: 39:48

a long long list

Andy Withrow: 39:50

or carve out the 15 minutes if the social media thing is the thing that's on your target. Just take 15 minutes of it and trends form it into a short paragraph. Yeah, from some of the gospel stories around Advent or Christmas, and listen and pray. Yeah, or have a reframe of your prayer life that says, God, I'm gonna, I know you know everything. But just for the sake of our relationship, I'm going to assume you don't know something unless I tell you, and that's going to help me be a bit more vocal. And maybe listen for, for what you might specifically, because it's important. It's not unimportant, what occurs to me to share with other people are with God, as opposed to what he already knows. And so well, why, why would I choose that to share? And maybe God wants to speak to me about those kinds of things.

Vanessa Caruso: 40:49

And he those are so good. I feel like I probably mentioned this last year, but we have friends who give up electricity for Advent, which is so up electricity for adults, yes, in the home. And that feels like one of those things where most people are like, Oh, give me a break. You never heard of

Andy Withrow: 41:10

that. It's cool is? Well, it's it's like, it's not like it's summer where it's gonna be laid out from like, no.

Vanessa Caruso: 41:19

So they have like,

Andy Withrow: 41:21

9pm.

Vanessa Caruso: 41:22

Yeah, they have 200 candles. I mean, the first year, they actually, you know, used a cooler on the porch for their freezer. And then last year, I think they kept all their amenities. So what it means is no lights or screens when the sun goes down, or whatever. Are you opening the fridge door? Right, right. But their house is just filled with candles everywhere. And it's radical and inconvenient. And really kind of mystical and cool. Like, kids. The kids love it. Yeah. And it's in our household. So our kid loves to go upstairs during that time. Yeah. So stuff like that does help my imagination, just to know that it's actually possible to try something out. If you're not doing it with this motivation. Like, yeah, like, I'm going to be so amazing. And or, I'm going to be so hardcore. And so God's gonna bless me because of it, whatever, all those confusing things that come into it. But just, I also want to think of, I want to be open to being inspired to try something that's a little bit outside of the normal. Yeah, as well as the small, the small stuff that is really bite size. Because the the whole axe at the root of the tree part that I said, I liked, I just love that image of, you know, somebody with an axe in their hands. And they do that kind of like aiming thing, like one or two. And it but it's before the big swing. But that moment doesn't feel super grim to me, it feels urgent and like, I want to be awake. And I don't want to I want to be willing to be a little bit weird. If it means that I'm, you know, attempting to receive notice and respond to what, that the seeds that are being thrown. On my corner in my house. Yeah, in my life.

Andy Withrow: 43:34

Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good image. It reminds us that everything we're talking about isn't, and you mentioned this earlier, it's not like this grasping for acceptance, or, or God's love, because the parable is that it's given. Usually, it's given liberally. It's scattered everywhere. The question isn't whether God loves and has grace, the question is, question of our agency, are we going are we going to put ourselves in a position to receive that kind of soil? Are we are we cultivating? And I think that's true here because God's word is returned and pardon, it's repent, which is just a return to me just come back change your course. And, and the word of pardon is that John, the word of the Lord did John issues in a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins for this pardon for this restoration, like, that's God's heart, in this passage and in the Gospel, and all through the scriptures is, I am for you. And I want you to return to me. And so everything we're talking about is putting ourselves in a position to hear that to know that into into come back into this this relationship in this connection. And how do we prepare ourselves and get ready. So that we can we can hear it, in know, his, his presence and is coming.

Vanessa Caruso: 45:10

You know what it reminds me of your enoughness stuff. Last time we talked, that there's a part of this that like the forgiveness of sins and the baptism of repentance, that instead of being this really depressing situation, it's actually a freeing one, where we can enter Advent with what if we assumed or trusted that we are enough, while also taking small steps to better fertilize our soil? You

Andy Withrow: 45:47

receive? Yeah, the the reality is, you're not going to you're not going to be enough. And yourself. And it's don't even try. But the gift is that, that in Christ God has made us God has now accepted us and meet us enough. So you are free to to fail and stumble and be really bad at listening to God and and figuring out how to be in His presence. But the question is the fundamental orientation that God is his head, he can do a lot with just a little bit of our Okay, God, I need help or just do a little bit of life interruption. Learn to look for him coming outside of our expectations or structures or business as usual. See, whereas we're gonna interrupt life a little bit, and, and look for and listen to what God might be doing. Seems like the God of the Bible is the one who does a lot with even just a little bit of that.

Vanessa Caruso: 46:48

Yes. And the baptism bit, when I was reading about this passage, I read that what John kind of initiated was a very different form of baptism than then was normal. From what I understand, it was kind of a rite of purity, where you'd like sprinkle yourself with like some water. So it was like an individual act. And you could do it a bunch to get better and better. And so being in the river and kind of administering a submersion, yeah, that's what I'm assuming it was, like a submersion type. meant to me like, this involves each other, like, it's kind of a more intimate way of being freed. And it made me think that doing adventure with others is really helpful. Whether it is a formal group, like a neighborhood table, or a small group of some sort, or if it is your family, or if it's your family with another family, or if it's just like, a friend that you feel like you can be honest with and kind of admit what you're, what you're working with. Yeah, and involve them. Even though I'm pretty self sufficient. I don't usually feel a need to like, involve other people very much. But part of the discipline, I feel like have the baptism of repentance in the river is saying, like, we're going to need each other something about the Jesus way. Yeah, there's, there's an interdependence. That is not totally my nature. And, and the baptism of repentance is, is getting into that a little bit more. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 48:32

Yeah. It's pretty good.

Vanessa Caruso: 48:35

How were how are we?

Andy Withrow: 48:36

We're pretty good. Okay. I mean, I yeah, this might be a good, good spot to. To break.

Vanessa Caruso: 48:44

I found the quote by Eugene just even though we've talked about it, but here it is. The assumption of spirituality is that always God is doing something before I know it. So the task is not to get God to do something I think needs to be done, but to become aware of what God is doing, so that I can respond to it and participate and take delight in it.

Andy Withrow: 49:09

Right, yeah, that's great quote, and yet, maybe before figuring out what is next there's probably some music