Vanessa Caruso: 0:01

Welcome to the bear with me podcast where we aim to integrate belief and practice in the Christian life.

Andy Withrow: 0:18

Hey, welcome, everybody. We're glad to be back from a little short break during Lent and happy Eastertide. Everyone. Now that updated our podcast for everyone. We're Vanessa and I are here. And we've got if we ever had two guests at the same time now, this is a first Yeah, so we're really excited. This is the first because we've got two guests on our bear with me podcast show. And one of the guests is a returner. And has the distinction of being on the show that has the single most downloads. Bear with me history. So we know we needed a boost. Yeah, like we need to get back into the game. And so we back Naomi Jaeger to come back, she came back. Just a quick fact check. You did have an episode with two people with your summer when with Liz and Anna here, but I wasn't. Yeah, that's true. That's two guests. You're right. You're right. Yeah, this is the first time right. So we've had two guests before. But there's the first one with four of us on at the same time, because I was not there for

Vanessa Caruso: 1:14

that one. Yeah, so it doesn't count Fanny's not there.

Andy Withrow: 1:17

I don't have it actually, in my catalog. So. So Naomi is with us. And then Yvonne man is also with us. And the reason that they are with us today is because we want to ask them a few questions about Sabbath and how all this came about was that at the table church, where I'm a pastor, we've got this thing called kule. On its discipleship formation, it's spiritual formation. And one of the things we tried to do is really find leaders in the community to help us with this. And Ivana and Naomi for Lent, both kind of had the same idea at the same time, and about doing a study on Sabbath. And they had some great experiences I'm not going to say anything about because they're gonna ask them about it. Kind of leaving some Sabbath, this Sabbath, the things over Lent, and we now that that's over, or that part of it is overwhelming to have them come on and share with us all their deep learnings. So maybe the first question for both of you, at the same time, is, okay, what do you remember about how this got started? And why did you do it? And what was it, there's a lot of things in there, you can start wherever you want.

Yvonne: 2:31

I'll start with your neighborhood table. Because Naomi and I are part of a same part of a small group that meets every other Sunday morning, and we were going through that as part of the church that you Pastor Andy, we were going through the 10 commandments. And we had this wonderful conversation when it came to Sabbath about and we started to ask around, is anybody practicing Sabbath? And what does that look like for you? And it was just a really kind of innocent conversation starter, that, for me, anyway, led to kind of deep thought and reflection, I've been kind of interested in the idea of simplicity, and moving towards that in some areas of my life. And this just seemed to fit kind of as a deeper next step flow into creating a more simple lifestyles, and having come out a very busy time and stressful time in my life, maybe a bit more hungering for what Saba seemed to offer me.

Naomi Yeker: 3:32

Yeah, and I think for me, it kind of came about I've been following some teaching and stuff out of Bridgetown Church, which is a church in Portland and they've been doing a lot of teaching around spiritual formation and Sabbath and stuff. And they had started this are some of the people from there had started this group called practicing the way in or creating some great resources around Sabbath and and I just kind of been captivated by this idea of how we can create space in our lives in order for God to kind of do work in our lives and help grow us into people of love and peace and joy. And so there's kind of some like effort in creating that space. But ultimately, it's sort of resting and trusting in God in that gap, you create a bit, but I haven't really like practice that with much intentionality before this. So yeah, for for Advent, I decided to try and be a bit more, just tried some intentionality around it. And then for Lent, we decided to do something together and invite people into it.

Vanessa Caruso: 4:40

What I love about your experiment is the together part of it, like I've tried Sabbath kind of alone and just failed at keeping it in, in a long term kind of way. But I love that part of Sabbath where it's not just for us, but it's also the idea of By allowing our neighbors to rest, you know, if we're not shopping at certain places on a Sunday, that means ultimately it would ideally mean that people wouldn't have to keep their businesses open on a Sunday. So the fact that you did it for Advent alone to experiment, and then it kind of sound as sounds like it grew a bit to a communal experiment. Yeah. For Lent. Yeah. Yeah, that

Naomi Yeker: 5:26

sounds really curious about because I had, like, my tendency is just to kind of my idea of Sabbath a search or withdraw. And yeah, be in silence and solitude and rest, and stop kind of, but there's sort of these other elements of like, delighting and bringing other people into it. And then also that like, yeah, we're resting together. And what does that mean? So it was neat to to experiment about with that together a bit more.

Vanessa Caruso: 5:51

So what was the experiment? Like? What did you do with other people?

Yvonne: 5:58

Well, I will start and say that for me, it was kind of a slow process of doing a lot of reading about Sabbath, because not having practice Sabbath with intentionality. I'd kind of done what most of us typically think a Sunday looks like get up, go to church, maybe visit, relax, watch the ballgame, hockey game, you know, read, you know, kind of do quiet things. And so the first part for me was really trying to understand what was Sabbath, both from a Christian perspective, and also reading some Jewish traditions around Sabbath. And so that for me was kind of the beginning of it, and then kind of committing that I was going to try Sabbath as a practice for all of 2023. So that became a New Year's resolution, which was kind of fun, because I thought that way I could practice it. And it didn't have to be anything I did, right. I just had to kind of move into it and see kind of where it would take me. And then between the two of us, we began to kind of look at and I offered up and said I would hold Sabbath suppers on Saturdays in the month of March. And that was kind of what I committed to we also committed to doing a bit of a talk, kind of invite people to join us to kind of invite them into that Saba supper and some of the other things we were going to do. So we did a talk at Kalia, which Andy referred to what that was about. And we did a little bit of a talk at that about what Sabbath was from our perspective, and then leaving them with the invitation to join us during Lent. So invited them to our house for Sabbath supper on Saturdays, and then maybe Naomi can explain it. Yeah.

Naomi Yeker: 7:46

And then paired with that we did a four or five week study, kind of Sabbath discussion with the practicing the way resources, which are free and available online.

Yvonne: 7:59

And amazing. Yeah, they're missing. Yeah,

Naomi Yeker: 8:01

yeah. So we were kind of doing that in tandem, like the study on Tuesday nights at my place, and then the Sabbath meals on Saturday nights, it wasn't entirely the same group. But

Yvonne: 8:11

no, yeah. There was lots of mixed up. And if people who went to one or the other who many had, nope, no real Sabbath experience whatsoever. So the Saturday night became their first Sabbath practice. Others had way more history with it. And were able to share with us some of their experiences, learnings and teachings. And so it was kind of a fun thing to do. I might also add that my mom's birth father was a Jew. And so for me, this has been a really interesting kind of like, there's another layer for curiosity around it. Not that that's helped me be any more knowledgeable, but it certainly is added another layer of periodicity.

Vanessa Caruso: 8:59

Definitely.

Andy Withrow: 9:02

So what can you get into some of what you learned going through the process?

Naomi Yeker: 9:12

Yeah, I mean, so basically, like for the Sabbath meals, we would gather at a Vons house and sometimes most of the time we would all kind of contribute to the meal and then there was different prayers and kind of rhythms that we did. One of which was we read the Kurdish I don't know if I'm saying that right prayer together and there is we pour wine and there was something to pray during that time and light two candles, one for remembrance and sorbents of Sabbath and then we bless each other, go around the circle and bless each other. And then we would have hollow bread, sometimes just garlic loaf, whatever, and take him to use and to go around the circle and talk about when aspect of our week that we would relive because it was so good.

Vanessa Caruso: 10:07

Wow. Yeah.

Naomi Yeker: 10:09

So I really loved all the all the elements, really. But the first one that stuck out was the stuck out was the blessing each other, I think, because it was a group of people that I didn't actually know all that well. And there was just something kind of like uncomfortable and a bit unusual about like, looking into someone's eyes besides you, and what do we say, May you be happy and at peace on the Sabbath? It's quite simple. But there was something I just really enjoyed about saying that out loud, and then receiving that from somebody. And I know, it might seem sort of for a second, though, some people don't like the passing of the piece or whatever. But it felt like maybe just because new and a bit uncomfortable, but neat. Like I just really received from that.

Vanessa Caruso: 10:59

Wow. So it wasn't a spontaneous blessing.

Naomi Yeker: 11:02

No, I think you could grow into that. But we're sort of beginner stages.

Vanessa Caruso: 11:07

So you turn to the person on your right. Yeah. And and say this, Yeah, mine these lines, and they would and then they would receive it. And then they would turn and say Yes, exactly. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. What was the line again,

Naomi Yeker: 11:20

may be happy and at peace on this Sabbath. Sounds nice. Yeah.

Yvonne: 11:24

In the Jewish tradition, the fathers, the children are at the table. And we didn't have that experience with our Sabbath meals. But maybe, well, we did, actually. Because anyways, that's another story. But in the Jewish tradition, the children are also at the Sabbath table, of course, and the fathers all took turns would bless the children. And that was a very consistent process of blessing. And I actually think there is something about that the women in the Jewish tradition play a much greater role around the around the rituals that happen, they light the candles, and they just some of the parents, but it's the father that blesses the children. So it's kind of a nice little role reversal in some ways, and yet, very much like the Old Testament stories of, you know, the father blessing the the sons and all that kind of thing. So I, I kind of look forward to the day when that is part of some of our Sabbath practices. But a rich thing to do for our kids today.

Vanessa Caruso: 12:22

Yeah. To look them in the eye and bless them like that. Weekly. Be cool. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 12:29

That's hard to do. As you point out, it's like it's uncomfortable. I think it's something about that, that's different. It's in the in the sort of growing up in the church or the Christian subculture, it's easier to I'll pray for you or let me pray for you. But to actually looks on there, and it's like, speak to them, where it's a different dynamic. And we do like at, baptisms, we usually have like a matriarchal or patriarchal blessing. But no matter how much how much instruction you give, it's so easily reverts to prayer. I find it Yeah, it's a prayer. Blessing is speaking to the child your words, in the name in the Name of God in the name of Jesus. Wow, that's a different thing. Yeah, I think it's just so counterintuitive for us in or out of practice, or even some of that. The power of it is yeah, we're a bit shy of that's kind of a fascinating dynamic.

Naomi Yeker: 13:25

It's interesting. I feel like with the blessing, usually keep your eyes open, or is prayer. You close your eyes. There's something about that intimacy. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Andy Withrow: 13:37

Yeah, that's just a lot more comfortable than looking even sad. I like May God bless you, and make this happen in your life. And maybe this in this level, isn't it? Yeah.

Yvonne: 13:50

We have to remember that Jesus practice the Sabbath. So these these little traditions that we do maybe have evolved over the years, but at the same time, there were practices that Jesus was doing like a blessing, which I suspect he was doing. Yeah. And so when we do these things, now with a real sense of this is this is an imitation of Jesus, then you begin to deepen what you're doing. I feel like it's a much deeper experience for me when I think that Jesus may have done this, I'm participating in something Jesus may have done doesn't make me Jesus, but it sure makes me feel a little bit closer to him in terms of that culture doesn't seem quite so distant for me. Anyway, it was that was a really interesting we did have one of our Sabbath meals as a picnic. So we went for a nature walk and then we came back and we did a little bit of lit the candles and did a little bit of the Saudi goldstream. Now one of the parks out here, and in doing that, it was interesting there we had children. And then we did that but instead of doing it, and it was a little, it was a new group of people. New totally to Sab. With many of them, it was a new experience. But instead of doing it all the way around, we just turn to someone next to us. But you could feel a little bit of the uncomfortableness from some of them. And yet they rested in it. Like there is something about speaking of blessing that is uncomfortable. But once you do it, it is as you say, you you. There's something soft about it. It's not a harsh, and it's not. The words are not uncomfortable to say, yeah. You know, and feel. So it was really an interesting experience.

Naomi Yeker: 15:33

Yeah. That was one of my favorite things, I have more, but do you want to go ahead. I also liked how there's an idea, one of their ideas in the material is to have a Sabbath box, I never actually got to the box place, but I'm curious about it. But you have a box. And when you come for the meal, people put like their phones and their wallets and their keys. And you take a little moment to like, write out things that might be on your mind or to do lists, and you put it in the box as you're kind of like setting it aside. And you cover your clocks, so that you're not paying attention to time. And yeah, there was just something so neat about like having my phone off having my watch off. And you're just kind of going you're enjoying the evening without any sense of like, wanting to go home because there's nothing you have to get home for because the next day is just a day of rest. So it's like if you're tired, you go home. And if you're not, then you stay and enjoy. Which was just Yeah, it was just so fun to have kind of like that. Freedom in that. And you're just like that. I think it makes you more present in the evening. Because you're not paying attention to the time or people you're texting or whatever.

Yvonne: 16:50

Once we did do one sent when the cover. Yeah, yeah, we didn't do the notes. But we did put the cell phones into a box, which was and I kind of told everybody ahead of time, that was what we were moving towards. And I did cover all my clocks in the house. So cool. And so it was really cool. And then we so people came in and then I will talk a little bit about that. Because it led to some really interesting conversation, a couple of things came up when I said to them, okay, so you don't have watches, you don't have time. If you're tired in the evening goes really short, and everybody's just tired. They want to go home that says what you really need. So that's okay, if the night goes long, and it's like wee hours in the morning, it says that's what we need. So like, I don't really care, like the time is irrelevant. Sabbath is really around listening to your body and your rhythms. Anyway, all that to say so they entered into it, except one person who told me later, I didn't know about putting the cell phones in the boxes. And she said, What was really interesting to me was that as the evening went on, and I realized no one had pulled out their cell phone to fact check. We got into really deep biblical conversations. And you could see people's minds just were trying to find a scripture. And if they'd had their cell phone, they could have only looked it up. And so there was a lot of really deep spiritual conversation, but there was no interruption of the phone. Wow. And she said it was so everybody was so present. And that was her, her observation of us just simply not having a cell phone at the table. So parents out there who say to your kids leave your cell phone away from the dinner table, you know, obviously, you know, there's some real reasons for trying to do that more and more. Yeah. I will also say cell phones are the biggest challenge for me on Sabbath. In what way being present and available to others.

Vanessa Caruso: 18:51

So do you mean being distracted by the phone on Sabbath and it takes your presence away from others or it's hard to be present to people if you're if you're not on your phone? It means

Yvonne: 18:59

that my family don't practice Sabbath don't understand Sabbath so they still need to contact me yeah and sometimes it's the only way of connecting yeah you know elderly parents yes. A granddaughter who just sometimes a little more needy and so wanting to be present your cell phone is on well if it's on it's also becomes a distraction for other purposes and reasons so it's it just Yeah, and everybody I've almost there exceptions but almost everyone I've read in recent years who practice Sabbath express that is probably one of the biggest challenges is setting that off and the side

Vanessa Caruso: 19:37

yeah, because you have to view your whole world kind of set it off is the feeling Yeah, well family or it's the contact

Yvonne: 19:44

that the cell phone is the way of contacting yet another and so we don't have landlines anymore. Yeah. So it is discomforting? Yeah. To know that if someone has an emergency pastors talk about this. Yeah. And how do they handle Sabbath? So maybe? Yeah, talk about that.

Andy Withrow: 20:06

Nobody owes me for an emergency. Not true. Almost true. Oh, really? No, I don't, I'd say a typical, I think I think that's a function of the culture of our church in a good in a good way is because of the way that we're structured. There's a lot of many pastors in the community. So someone would call somebody actually connecting on a Sunday in a smaller group at the neighborhood table, or, or so.

Vanessa Caruso: 20:34

I can't believe covering clocks is a thing. I've never lived without, like an awareness of time. Like that. And it it strikes me it takes some planning, like you have to have a margin around that time in order to truly cover the clocks and like, kind of have a have an inner clock. Yeah. For like, what do I need to do right now instead of looking externally to say I need to do this by this time, or I need to be here by then. So that's pretty radical in itself.

Yvonne: 21:11

I just love the topic of time is now Oh, my gosh,

Vanessa Caruso: 21:16

I do to

Yvonne: 21:18

clean my greatest. And Naomi knows, I was gonna talk about this, just waiting for the opportunity. Because, for me the study of Sabbath, the greatest and most kind of get the hairs back on the on the back of my neck to stand up was really when I started to really read about how Sabbath came to be so God creates, creates, and on the seventh day, he finishes the blood work, and then he rests. And He sanctifies, or this period of time, so not a mountain, not a creature, not a person, it is time, and he creates it and makes it holy. And so I have really, I haven't found a good writer on the construct of time and holiness. But Abraham, Joshua Heschel don't get his name, right. He's a Jewish writer, and he has a lot to say about time. And he's often quoted for some of the constructs around time, and saying that really God created and sanctified the Sabbath made it holy, it is holy, whether we enter it into it or not. So there is this holy period of time that God has created, and we enter into it. So for me, I started to think about okay, so time is what the first thing God made holy was time. And it's this like, thing without power, nobody can control it, nobody owns it, nobody can make you get more or less of it. It is like this really crazy kind of thing that we don't truly understand even from a physics or any other kind of way of looking at it. And so there's that piece of it that I really found quite fascinating. And so I've really been looking at time, and why a period of time and what is to be done in that period of time. If it's holy. What do we do with it's more than resting and ceasing work, right? And it's not going to church necessarily, that might be part of it. But how do we create a period of time? How do we keep it holy? How do we honor that holiness. And so I've just, I think I'm still mulling that over a lot in my own mind. I mean, I've got some answers and some ideas. And I've read a lot and everybody has some real constructs. But I kind of liken it to Communion. We always think something happens when you take the bread and wine and there's lots of theological perspectives on that. But I also think that similarly, there's something that happens in the in the sanctified time that we call Sabbath that we are missing out on, we just see it as another day of the week. Yeah, but it is holy. And so this holy time, God is looking for us to show up and meet us there and to be present with him in it. And there is something there that we I have been missing. So yeah.

Naomi Yeker: 24:16

And there's something that I really liked about the Sabbath meals in that way is that it's kind of like this. You have all these people helping you to remember that each week and like there's sort of a bit of ceremony going into it with the candles and the prayers and like, because on your own it's so easy to kind of just forget, at least for me,

Yvonne: 24:33

or slide into it. Yeah, yeah. Slide out of it. Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 24:37

Wow. That is radical. I love the topic of time to so much.

Yvonne: 24:44

Share your writers with

Vanessa Caruso: 24:47

that we should in the show notes. I see your mod ridden book that I haven't read on the table. Is that one of your favorites.

Yvonne: 24:53

It's my latest Okay, and I'm just kind of trying to kind of do a lot a lot of broad Stroke reading. What I liked about hers is everybody has their own construct of ceasing, resting, delighting and worshiping, and she uses the term embracing, and she talks a lot about intentionality. And so I've been talking a lot about intentionality. So she's really speaking to me because I really think that that's kind of the key to Sabbath is that there's some intentionality Yeah, in the way we enter into it. And the time that we spend, she does that image talks about feasting. And so the term delighting is good, but I think her feasting is kind of replacing worshiping, which is interesting, or maybe, I think that I think that and I haven't totally finished the book. But it's this idea of Sabbath being a celebration. And so in the Jewish tradition, Sabbath comes to you as a bride. So as a bride comes to the groom, there is the setting aside of work, this is setting aside of, of troubles and whatever might be weighing heavily on your mind, and you celebrate. And so this idea of feasting that she enters into and she, they're really short chapters are easy reads, but she talks about feasting on the internal with music with boot beauty, with food with affection and festival. So like just this idea of Sabbath isn't this kind of somber occasion, it's actually quite the opposite. It's really as a celebration. And so I was really struck by the term feasting and thinking, how do we feast on God because really, all Sabbath is doing is drawing us closer to God and feasting on him. And, and we do that through worship and all these other things, but it's this, it's a celebration as much as it is reflection, and we all enter into that differently depending on how we're wired, you know, intellectually, with music with nature, I think it's just important to remember that I can't tell you how to do Sabbath. There's some things that might help you practices, but it's, it's very uniquely designed.

Naomi Yeker: 27:01

Yeah. Reminds me to have, I think it was the quote from your fasting lent episode. Or you're talking about, there was a quote, where we, we don't actually enjoy feasting as much or as fully because we're not fasting in the same way and, and how we're kind of oversaturated with everything every day. And so there's not sort of a special occasion and remind me of you mentioning how it can feel kind of expensive, or like a lot to be having nice wine every every week and a lot of fancy food and having people over, but habits kind of made you rethink a little bit like maybe having simpler meals during the week so that you can have this more special day, once a week. And just in other ways, too. That makes me think of how we Yeah, are kind of like overindulging. Yeah. Other ways. And then there's no kind of heartedly all the time. Yeah, yeah. Anyways, so that's kind of also a theme on my mind.

Vanessa Caruso: 28:03

Yeah, I love that. I don't remember who said this. It might have been on that. Practicing the way podcast but someone said people who practice Sabbath live all seven days differently. Yeah. And that, that reminds me of it. Like when you do set aside time and there's intentionality and feasting, that it affects the rest of your week. It's not just about that day, the fruits of it are kind of lived out, which is also the idea. I think you've we've talked about this before. Walter Brueggemann talks about it in his book Sabbath as resistance that there's this theory that the fourth commandment? So there's 10 commandments, the first three are about God about a God who is not anxious who rest who, who doesn't worry about the full functioning of creation. So the first three are about God and naming God is that and then the fourth one is you'll keep the Sabbath holy. And then the last, I don't know what my math is six or so are about how to make sure everyone can rest. Relationship, yeah, how to be how to be in relationship. And he says that the key, maybe the fourth commandment is key. It allows us to keep the other six so we don't have to cut it. We don't have to reduce relationships to greed or sexual exploitation or whatever it is, if if we learn kind of the secret of Sabbath, so that reminds me to have will live all of the commandments differently. In a way if we can figure out grace, which is what Sabbath kind of represents to me, is like an economy of grace. Yeah.

Yvonne: 29:45

Cool. Thanks. Studying the Sabbath for me has just really rounded out my Christian faith like it just there's so much about it, because to kind of further that, what you were talking about Walter Brueggemann said is that really it is around the dependence on God. So the very first thing he does in that Exodus 20 Chapter is he really is saying, you are under Pharaoh, now you're under me. And it is going to be differently. You're going to depend on me, I'm not going to depend on you, I'm not going to put my year you're not going to effort for me. I am, I am your provider and depend on me. And I just, I think that's the other thing in this culture, where we feel so self dependent for our next meal for our next this are, how are we going to pay rent? How are we going to do this? How are we going to do that? And really, the whole Sabbath Keeping is the notion that I can leave things undone the box, you put your undone list into the box, and for one day, you let God hold that list and figure out what how it's going to get done. Even that. It's just it's amazing. So that reshapes your whole week. It really does. Yeah, so I, I've just been, the whole study has been like, why haven't I learned this? I'm old. And so I'm Why haven't I been taught this and learn this? Yeah. And I really feel like it's been a huge mess in my life an opportunity to, to learn that dependence on God in a new in a fresh way.

Andy Withrow: 31:15

Seems like such a great example of something that has to be more practice than taught, like, it's not so much use the to dues of it, it's like, it's actually a rhythm that you have to Yes, like you said, experiment, like, I'm just gonna experiment to see what this is, as opposed to just here's how you do the Sabbath. Totally, which is hard to do. In our moment,

Yvonne: 31:42

I kind of liken it to growing a garden. And a gardener will tell you that there's always next year. And so if it doesn't come up, if it doesn't work, if it doesn't happen, there's always next year. And so even for me, like my Sabbath practices have been inconsistent, even though I've said I was going to set it in practice them. I've had some really bad moments where things have gotten really sour on me. And I thought, well, that was really on Sabbath, like, are not very good Sabbath. But there's always next Sabbath. And so I think that that too, is like you say, it's, it's a practice, it's a rhythm. It's a saying, I'm seeking God, you know, it's an attempt to seek God. And you can keep doing that next week. Yeah, and the next week, and the next week, and you can fail and, like, doesn't matter what this is about, it's about the heart. And it's nice

Naomi Yeker: 32:31

that it's kind of Yes, sort of there for you each week. Like, you can be like, you know, in a time of sorrow or a time of, you know, great happiness, and it kind of can be for you in that season, what it needs to be, like a time for those space for those feelings, or Yeah, sharing Joy anyways, so just need that. It's just this built in, built in rhythm. I think in the in the practicing the way material, it talks about how the seven day week is the one thing that is not related to the stars or anything like it's, they've, it could be changed if we wanted it to be and I think I don't remember when at some point in history, they tried to extend it to a 10 day week. And like productivity actually went down because people like couldn't rest as they needed to. Not that we're always using that rhythm. But so it just seems like this, there's actually something to that, that rhythm that's important for us to function and flourish. Just interesting.

Vanessa Caruso: 33:33

Yeah.

Yvonne: 33:36

It's been so much fun. The meals have been just a real sweet spot in the week just to kind of connect with people at that level. And there are churches that are doing this as a church and have created rhythms so that the pastoral staff actually get Sabbath and do it have kind of figured out how to do it. I think that it's just an opportunity for people to set aside some time to just kind of reconnect with God in a different way. And I think at the table, we end Sabbath with a meal on Sunday nights. Because we come together, it's a really delightful way of ending our Sabbath. And, you know, maybe we should talk about how we communicate that as part of our our Sunday night is because many not everybody Sabbath on Sunday, there are a few that do Saturday, and that's, you know, Friday, Saturday or however they do it. But it is kind of an acknowledgment that that has transpired and it's good.

Andy Withrow: 34:43

Yeah, though, that would be great to start think about those things. Maybe question I have is what's the if anything else on that list that's like, yeah, I need to share this really great thing I learned or thing that happened or, or whatever, now's the time to do highlight

Vanessa Caruso: 35:03

or learning ask another question. Or reflection.

Andy Withrow: 35:07

Now he has furrowed brow she's thinking.

Naomi Yeker: 35:11

I mean, there's I feel like there's always more. So I feel like you should ask your question. Well, I was

Andy Withrow: 35:16

going to ask them. So what's next after because you've kind of done this thing like we've committed to march or you know, I think you just finished up just this week, right? Yeah. Your Tuesday nights. So what do you see next for you, maybe in relation to our community? What are some thoughts or ideas or imaginations?

Naomi Yeker: 35:35

Well, we've talked about maybe doing once a month Sabbath dinners. Avans got another one planned. So keeping it going in some regard, but yeah, I'm still thinking through through that myself. I would love to keep keep it communal in some aspects. But it's also it is a lot of organizing and stuff. So finding the balance of that and like having every Saturday night put aside is like, who quite a commitment if, forever. So, yeah, I'm still figuring it out. But like, but want to continue in some capacity? What about you, Yvonne?

Yvonne: 36:17

Well, I'm committed to doing Sabbath for all of 2023. Right? Okay. Having read it, and studied it, and the more I study it, I really do feel like it's a commandment that I've missed in my life. So I will continue it in some form. And honor it to the degree that I can honor it with all the other commitments that get stacked on but those other commitments are usually people commitments, which is really still part of practicing the Sabbath. It's just a matter of keeping that balanced with time for myself to enter deeply into time with God. And I think that that's stuff that I'm still trying to work out in my own head, we're going to try and continue to do Sabbath meals one Saturday, a month at my house, whether it moves to more or not, I entertained quite a bit. So it's not unusual for me to have people over on a Saturday night, I just have to decide how much of this for people who don't, who aren't part of a fellowship, who might find that really weird. My son came over, he's not a practicing Christian, he came over he goes when we become Jewish, because he saw the candles. And I'm like, Oh, you have no idea. And so I think that there's just some ways of trying to figure out, those who I read, who have been practicing Sabbath all their lives, or for majority of their lives, the people as they enter into their lives, see that as part of their rhythm, and it's not questioned. But for those of us that are entering into Sabbath practice, and haven't been doing it for a long period of time, there is a whole bunch of unlearning for people around you. And you're really not adding something to your week, you're really trying to find ways to undo. So I don't think that this is necessarily a quick and easy rhythm to enter into your life. It takes some real thought. And I think giving myself a year to kind of see how I can make this work is probably was wisdom I didn't have but just got lucky on are blessed with because I certainly I really didn't realize how difficult it was going to be to maintain.

Naomi Yeker: 38:19

Yeah. Yeah, that reminds me, can I give four helpful reminders? Yeah. That they're not from me, they're from the material we were using. But the first one is to start small. So maybe, like 24 hours of a Sabbath is a lot to start off with right away. So you can kind of try it a morning or whatever, something that's approachable, and then trying to think subtraction, not addition. So it can feel like just another thing you're adding into a busy schedule. But if you try and think about what could be, you know, taken out, yeah, rather than added in, and then you get out what you put in. So if like I have a tendency to sort of like dip my toes and things and try it out a little bit and you're, you're less likely to get a lot out of it if you're not sort of doing it with your whole heart, I guess. And then they talk about remembering the J curve. So usually like something will get a little bit worse before it actually gets better. So try and stick it out for a little while. And that there's no formation without repetition. So spiritual formation is slow and deep and cumulative. So it's not gonna we're not gonna figure this out over our like four week lens practice. It kind of gives you talked about it kind of getting us like a map for the journey ahead and maybe people that will help you as you figure it out. But yeah, it's kind of it'll be a long probably lifelong thing continuing to learn.

Vanessa Caruso: 39:48

Well, just on top of that are in addition to those Yeah, anything either of you have found personally that helps you keep a Sabbath or plan for it like any Just real life things for you on the front end, that enable you that make the possibility of Sabbath this Saturday, more, more likely.

Naomi Yeker: 40:12

I mean, we've talked about like, the just the practical things of like grocery shopping and meal planning and stuff ahead of time, which can kind of feel like filling up your earlier days. But keeping in mind for me, I kind of think of it as like, I'm sort of preparing like a gift for my future self. And when I think of it like that, like, Oh, this is worth it, like, I want to get these things done earlier, so that I have this time and like there's food made for me, and, and kind of keeping in mind, like my broader girl goal of wanting to, like engage with God in a deeper way and grow. Myself. So, yeah, and then I think that it kind of helps, for me at least, like prioritize a bit like if I want to have this as a priority, then, you know, you've mentioned to you about and like maybe I won't watch a show this night so that I can prepare things or communicate around now so that I'll have this day. And that was one of the things I learned from the digital minimalism thing was like that. I actually did have a bit more time than I realized just sort of like, all these little moments. Yeah, that sort of add up. And then if you are not watching it, it kind of like takes up your whole life. Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 41:30

Oh, that's so helpful.

Yvonne: 41:32

I will say one, I'll tell one story on myself. So as I was practicing this, before we started to do the Sabbath meals, I too, started in Advent. And so but after Christmas, sometime, Jim and I were trying to get a whole bunch of stuff done in an afternoon, and he was driving the car, and it was getting close to Sabbath. And I had one more stop to make before I had all my Sabbath things together. And then it was going to be Sabbath for me starts at six o'clock. So it was about 430 in the afternoon. And we were trying to get I can't remember what it was something that I needed to get. And we'd gone to two stores, and they didn't have it. And I was off to the third one. And we were driving down the road. And Jim was driving on my husband, and he's driving and he's going like 10 kilometers under the speed limit. And I'm going I'm trying really hard to be, you know, not the drive, and not show my impatience. I said, Jim, I think the speed limit is 50k here. Yeah, yeah. Do you think you could kind of maybe speed it up, like, maybe get a little closer to the speed limit? And he's like, yeah, so he's like, up to like, 45 kilometers an hour now. And like, I am like screaming inside my head that I'm not going to get to Sabbath and get all these things that I need to do so that I can get to Sabbath. And finally he gets up to 50. You know, like I've mentioned him a long time ago. 50. And he goes, Man, this Sabbath is really stressful. And so I do think that I think in our practice of Sabbath, we if we aren't planful we can get to that headspace of just creating stress for everybody around us in order that we might sit, of course, we did get home and we did sit down and we had a glass of wine. And I before we had to go and we were going to join somebody for a meal. And I said, Isn't this lovely? You know, this is this is the reward is sitting on the deck enjoying a glass of wine. So I think that there's that and so I do think Sabbath practices and in things that make it easier is the reward. But it also for me, the last time we had last couple of times we were practicing Sabbath meal was I was anticipating being with people and like I have company all the time. But there was a different kind of anticipatory feeling that I had, as I went looking forward to that Sabbath meal. I felt more like it was not me hosting, but it was I really, I into I don't know why it felt different. But I really felt like it was more a group coming together. Not me hosting people into my home. I don't know why it felt different. I've not been doing it long enough to explain that. But it did feel more of a participatory kind of feeling. And if that continues, that's what's going to drive me forward. Yeah. And then my Sunday mornings are quiet walks and doing other kinds of things that I look forward to so it's, it becomes something that is worthy of entering into anyway. Wow. Kind of you too is the walks right? Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 44:47

Naomi's walks by this was great. Yeah, it was. It was great. Oh, wow. Look at us.

Andy Withrow: 44:58

I don't know about you. Thank God. guess

Naomi Yeker: 45:03

God we didn't let you guys talk man. That was

Vanessa Caruso: 45:05

the planet

Andy Withrow: 45:07

guests on the show. So this was this was the plan.

Vanessa Caruso: 45:10

Yeah, thank you for

Andy Withrow: 45:12

for experimenting with Sabbath and then coming and sharing with us

Vanessa Caruso: 45:24

Yep, thanks everyone. Bye. Thank you. Bye