Lent: Common Abba

Vanessa Caruso: 0:01

Welcome to the bear with me podcast where we aim to integrate belief and practice in the Christian life.

Andy Withrow: 0:19

Hey, here we are rebounding. Andy. Good morning. We're still in Lent.

Vanessa Caruso: 0:23

We are here for a while. Yeah, it

Andy Withrow: 0:25

turns out it lasts like 40 Something days. Yeah, it's like 40 days of Lent plus the Sundays, right? Which is like 46 days or something like that. Anyway,

Vanessa Caruso: 0:33

it's March though.

Andy Withrow: 0:35

It is March. It feels. I don't know why, but it feels a little bit more like spring. Yeah. Why is that? It's been

Vanessa Caruso: 0:42

sunny a few days. Okay, that helps. Maybe some bulbs sprouting. Yeah. Tulips

Andy Withrow: 0:48

come out in the morning, like, Oh, he's a little warmer, but then I realized, Oh, look at the temperature. It's like, that's kind of the same. It's a psychological trick or something. Yeah, definitely. I don't know that magic trick. Yeah. Anyway, we're still in land. We talked about lent a lot last time. Right, a lot. So go back to that one. But my main idea for our topic today is that Lent. I think I mentioned this last time on your big land intro. But Lent is to the Christian year what a desert is to an ecosystem. Do you remember that part? Yeah. Thomas Merton. Ish. Yeah, yeah. Merton ask who's going to come up a little bit later? And I think and we talked last time, you had brought up how 40 days in the Bible comes up quite a bit. Moses is in the wilderness for 40 days up on the mountain for 40 days.

Vanessa Caruso: 1:41

Oh, I forgot about that one. Yeah, really? Before the 20 commandments as

Andy Withrow: 1:46

well. It was sweet. Remember how he goes up a few times? It's getting confusing there. But he's up there. 40 days receiving? Yeah, all the all the commands. Okay. And, and some of the instructions for the tabernacle. It's a long time. So long, in fact that the, the folks at the bottom of the mountain are like,

Vanessa Caruso: 2:06

Yeah, where is this guy? What's going on? Yeah, it's been a month.

Andy Withrow: 2:09

Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of a long time and people get impatient. We talked about Jesus at His Baptist or before or after His baptism. Yeah, he's in the wilderness for 40 days. Yeah. So these are this is a significant time, Spencer, there's something telegraphed here like 40 days, something about it? Yeah. And I, the one of the thoughts to me was that this idea of Lent sort of being like a desert experience, may have something to do with why in a lot of churches in North America, maybe evangelical churches especially. It's not it hasn't been historically as observed. Yes. Although I think that's starting to change the last like, decade or two. Yeah, like, I think more and more, more and more folks are like, oh, there's something to this.

Vanessa Caruso: 3:00

Yeah, there's something to learn. Yeah, you've noticed that Advent too, but yeah, Lent is different.

Andy Withrow: 3:07

But it kind of makes sense like who would want to go to the desert for 40 days like some people do right? Like my wife would like to go to the desert

Vanessa Caruso: 3:14

the first one I thought Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 3:17

But I mean the desert in the sense of middle of nowhere no amenities not a lot of comforts. Not the things we're used to that kind of experience

Vanessa Caruso: 3:32

Yeah, not as much distraction. Yeah,

Andy Withrow: 3:35

so the things that it brings can kind of be paired with the things that you lose or you miss out on Yeah, desert when you miss out on Yeah, a lot of your usual comforts. Usual routines the security that the city can bring your town can bring her wherever you live, that sort of thing. Yeah. So this idea that there's great wisdom behind this tradition that the church wove into their calendar year this 40 days of preparation like Jesus did it we should do it we should do some observation or someone's or marking of this time ensures every year people who are trying to follow Jesus actually follow him into this part of his life as

Vanessa Caruso: 4:26

well which is so easy to bypass Yeah, skip the desert. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 4:33

Because Jesus went to the desert

Vanessa Caruso: 4:35

certain driven

Andy Withrow: 4:39

good one he was driven into the desert by the

Vanessa Caruso: 4:42

Spirit different Yeah. Rather than saying like I'm gonna go do this yeah,

Andy Withrow: 4:47

I'm gonna go on a spiritual quest driven into the desert. By the spirit

Vanessa Caruso: 4:52

I picture like put being pushed behind was like, you know, your heels up like have you ever felt that? So? Yeah, recently a mentor who, you know, asked me, she said, Do you have a sense that maybe you're being driven into this experience of I have a couple of experiences that are like a desert right now in my life and interests where there's not resolution? Yeah, in certain relationships. And I really like to resolve things I like to be connected result resolution is nice. It's really nice. I think I talked about on the podcast before, it's like when a seam reps in a relationship for me, I'm like, so that sucker back up, let's get it back to what it used to be. And sometimes, the seams needs to be ripped, because there is a better garment or something being made. So sewing it back up prematurely doesn't actually respond to what's needed. And so I feel like the threads loose, the seams are open. And that feels deserty to me, and she said, what if the Spirit? Is it possible that you're being driven into this? And that felt so much better? To think that there might be a push into this?

Andy Withrow: 6:11

Interesting, yeah. Sitting in the non resolution?

Vanessa Caruso: 6:17

Doesn't that sound lenti?

Andy Withrow: 6:19

very lengthy. So thinking about Jesus going into the desert, like the literal desert, but even just in his life and ministry, into confronting darkness, into facing death, and all that non resolution. So in Lent, were given that same permission, like like your experience, like, well, maybe this is something that's okay for this season, to see a name the non resolution of our world, or the darkness of our world. Yeah, and, and I think for me, what I've learned in being Anglican now these 15 some odd years is, is having, being able to bring that darkness and that non resolution into the context of worship.

Vanessa Caruso: 7:12

I loved it when you said that last time it's in.

Andy Withrow: 7:15

And I think that's the thing that's that's like a gaping hole in the expression of, of church or the experience of church where you don't have that space, where it's all just the good stuff. The rest, we bring the resolution to worship, instead of the non resolution parts to worship, which cuts out like a whole swath of the Psalms. And the entire book of Lamentations. Yeah, in job right and job where it's like, no, this to God can handle this and wants us to bring this to Him in worship. So our experience of at the table of of Ash Wednesday service and Good Friday service, and in those sorts of things is this big space to come. And say not this is the season where we practice grieving. I'm that context of worship.

Vanessa Caruso: 8:12

Yeah, I agree. You said it so well, I can't, I can't,

Andy Withrow: 8:18

there's nothing else to say. So getting back to your friend Thomas Martin. Yeah. He wrote that The desert is the climate where prayer flowers, because opening line and his contemplative prayer, interesting. So it makes me think the climate of all those things that that dislocation, the climate of desolation, non resolution. Dis constellation, what's that space? He's saying? That's, that's where prayer grows into maturity into effectiveness and to power.

Vanessa Caruso: 8:52

Why is that? Do you think?

Andy Withrow: 8:54

Well, he connects it to the space where human comforts are absent the things that we're usually relying on for our sense of security and belonging, and comfort. Those are all gone. And we're the cert, he says, where the secure the secure routines of our city offers no support. And the correlation with that is that this is where prayer must be secured by God in the purity of faith. So where you've sort of cleared everything else out the things that you usually go for your comfort, your resolution, your sense of who you are, in the meaning of life and everything. You've cleared those out in a very uncomfortable way. So that you might cling to God in the in that whole sense of who you are, my You are my resolution, you are my ultimate comfort.

Vanessa Caruso: 9:45

So we're more dependent, more vulnerable, which is more human more ourselves. It's like, it's not we're not in the illusion that we're We're fine. We're self sufficient.

Andy Withrow: 10:00

Yeah, it's like pulling back a veil. It's not like I'm gonna make myself insecure so that I can trust God. So I'm going to reveal how, how insecure I really, yeah know how much I really need. Yeah, like is the idea behind it?

Vanessa Caruso: 10:13

Isn't it a little bit counterintuitive to think that the desert is the climate where prayer flowers? Because it is easy to think that prayer, the best kinds of prayer are when we feel spiritual. When we feel grateful. When we're praising when we're doing well, when our lives are going well, you kind of think like, that would be like a good season of prayer. Yeah, it's a little counterintuitive, but immediately makes so much sense. That it's when the seams have been ripped a little bit,

Andy Withrow: 10:50

I think, yeah, I think that those seasons where you feel like you're you you are, you're hitting on all the cylinders of prayer, or it's like, you feel like you have that. The constellation? Yeah, deep connection. Yeah. I think two things like one, it could be misleading. It could be it could be like, maybe you're just happy because of these other things. Yeah. But too, it could be because it is really great. Yeah. And God is providing those things is a great thing to be thankful for. But I think this, what we're talking about here kind of expands the range of what we can call a good prayer life. Yeah. It says, oh, no, when I'm feeling this constellation. That's a sign of something as well. That's also a sign of closeness. You go back to, you know, the Blessed are the poor in spirit. They're not feeling that constantly. If you're spiritually impoverished, the implication is, well, I don't feel super great about anything, which is my prayer life. Yeah. But yet those are the ones to whom belong the kingdom of God. Wow. So for me, I think the imagination is to expand well, to expand our imagination. What where is God close to us? Is where it kind of feels like a win win. It's like, well, when it feels good, great, celebrate that. But when it doesn't feel good, great, because that's where God is often the closest. That interesting, yes. It's interesting. So we the Sermon on the Mount, that's in Matthew's Gospel, it's the it's chapters five through seven. And it's, it's Jesus's first big public address in the gospel. So he's just done the desert, baptism the desert, he's come in to Galilee thing, good news, chemo. God is here, right now. And then he has this big inauguration moment, not creation sermon. I didn't

Vanessa Caruso: 12:59

realize it was on the heels of the desert. Yeah, okay. Deserts,

Andy Withrow: 13:03

I think in chapter three, Noah's chapter four, chapter four, and then he calls a few disciples, and then he goes and does his thing. And the sermon on the mount is primarily about receiving the kingdom of God. In right, almost the exact center of the sermon is Jesus teaching on prayer. You may know it, Lord's prayer

Vanessa Caruso: 13:26

that's in the Sermon on the Mount. Yeah, didn't remember

Andy Withrow: 13:28

right in the middle, chapter six. Okay. And so right before the sermon, Jesus had just spent his version of Lent in the desert 40 days, and now he's teaching those who would follow him how to pray, and what we call the Lord's Prayer. And it occurred to me that for a lot of us prayer often feels like the desert

Vanessa Caruso: 13:54

experience. Yes. That is so true.

Andy Withrow: 13:57

Like, just can feel dry can feel empty. You don't feel a lot of consolation or comfort. Yeah, often.

Vanessa Caruso: 14:05

Yes. It's I was thinking, hello, and then that echo. Hello, hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. That I feel like a lot of people say that. Yes.

Andy Withrow: 14:18

I know sometimes for me in prayer, My mind wanders back to what Merton calls the comforts of my city. Yeah, I could better spend my time

Vanessa Caruso: 14:27

definitely. It could be getting a lot done right now. Instead of feeling so mediocre and distracted. Yeah. And doubting like, Is this even? Is there somebody listening? So it's no

Andy Withrow: 14:41

wonder that prayer is difficult? Yes. For so much of us. Yeah. Yeah. What are your gospels, so much of Jesus life and work you see him finding time and space to pray all over the place? Early in the morning for everyone else woke up, sneaks away A psalm Lonely Mountain. They find them praying. It's as if the secret to his life and ministry are bound up in this life of prayer. finding peace, comfort and provision and the power of God in the desert

Vanessa Caruso: 15:17

to you want to know what he prayed about?

Andy Withrow: 15:19

Yeah, do you know?

Vanessa Caruso: 15:20

No. I don't know if this is a good time to say it. But so I'm doing the spiritual exercises, St. Ignatius, and there's this part called the election where you articulate your vocation, like what does? What is your real name? And with the idea that your name kind of summarizes who you are and why you're here,

Andy Withrow: 15:46

your first name or your last name?

Vanessa Caruso: 15:48

Your like, meta name, okay. Yeah. And some people's maybe their name actually does capture it in terms of

Andy Withrow: 15:56

some name and no, like, who are you?

Vanessa Caruso: 15:59

Yes, that's the metaphorical idea. But it's not like I believe I am Sarah, do you know what I mean? Like the you know, how Jesus gives people different names with the with the idea that that name that Jesus gives them is like their real name. So in that exercises, there's this opportunity to discover and articulate what is the thing that I bring to the world that is uniquely me, unrepeatable through Vanessa Marie Caruso. And what could I one way I thought about it? What could I like, study podcast about write about for the rest of my life and never get bored? Yeah. Like, what's the thing that gets me? So an example in this Jesuit book I read about discovering your personal vocation was the goodness of God, you know, there was this guy. Yeah. And it was like, even if he hadn't, he couldn't pray about anything else that always touched him, the goodness of God. So that was his personal vocation. It was, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pray towards that. I'm going to live towards that and remind myself of that, and I'm going to be that in the world. That's my like, kind of focus. So in this book, the author suggested Jesus had one. Jesus had a vocation. Oh, yeah. And he said, he thinks he could encapsulate Jesus's vocation with the word Abba. So when you talked about Jesus, retreating to pray, that it was the source of his ministry, it was what he returned to. Yeah, if it does feel like Abba, captures that, because it's this conversation. It's this relationship from which everything else comes from. It's good. Do you like that vocation for Jesus?

Andy Withrow: 17:49

I do. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Vanessa Caruso: 17:51

I do. Yeah. Surprising. A little bit.

Andy Withrow: 17:54

Yeah. Because anything? I mean, I would say yes, in part because of our topic this morning. Or wherever you are in podcast time. Has, it kind of pops up all over the Gospels is concerned for the Father. He reveals the Father, don't you know, me, The Father is with me the whole all the time. So yeah, that's, that's pretty fascinating. So yeah, so getting into the Lord's Prayer, and the, the opening line, our Father in heaven. It sort of shapes the whole prayer, even what you're saying, with the vocation like Jesus, concern and relationship and intimacy with the Father. In it speaks to intimacy and power, and kind of in the same breath, like, you think of all the lines of the Lord's Prayer, you know, how to be your name, your kingdom come, Your will be done, Give us this day I read and so on. But it starts off with this. Our Father in heaven that he teaches us to pray that, which is pretty interesting. It really is, right? Yes. It's like it's kind of a spiritual prayer for me. Uh huh. And my father, this is what I say. Yeah. You say you kind of make up your own is pray like this. So just again, combining this with the season or the the wilderness of land or the desert of Lent with this part of the prayer of our father. So retraining, our maybe our place of comfort and location, and constellation, those kinds of things or security with our father, my father.

Vanessa Caruso: 19:50

Wow. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 19:54

And the challenge with this is our relationship Tips with our actual fathers.

Vanessa Caruso: 20:03

That's the main thing.

Andy Withrow: 20:06

So my, my dad was loving and kind and generous and playful, but he was also absent, and short sighted and weak and hurtful. So he had both these things. And most of us are somewhere in that continuum, right? And yeah, tracks, somewhere in there. And it's like, ah, in. And so you know, of course, that's gonna play into how we how we think of God is our Father. Yeah. And so but Jesus invites us into his experience of, of what he calls his ABA, his father. My father, he says, loves to good gifts, good gifts to his children. My father is kind in good. In fact, if you like me, says, Jesus, you'll love the Father.

Vanessa Caruso: 21:02

That's such a nice idea.

Andy Withrow: 21:07

Because anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. And He will never leave you alone. And so it invites us into taking the things like with my dad example that were that fell short of what you would call a good father, you're invited to replace some of those things. Okay. Remember, though, that Jesus Father is these things, doesn't go away, is always present is kind Yeah, he is generous, those sorts of things. So Darrell Johnson put those faces Jesus comes to us, He reveals Himself to us, and invites us to follow him into his understanding of the Father. So you can't really do this, I think without kind of a regular understanding of who Jesus is. Yeah. That's going to be essential for for being able to pray our ABA

Vanessa Caruso: 22:02

exam. Okay, that reminds me, I can't think of who I feel like it's an archbishop. It's always a good guess. Who said, God is Christ like? And in God, there is no unpriced likeness at all. It's kind of reversing the idea that Christ is God like, yeah, like, I would say, we would say like, oh, Andy Ira looks a lot like you, your son. This is a little bit saying like, we don't know, Andy, but we know IRA, like the people at his school, let's say. And then when you come in, they're like, Oh, you look a lot like IRA. Yeah, like the one we know. Yeah. That's that when you said we have to get to know Jesus a bit. It's kind of extrapolating what we know. Right? From Jesus to God. Yeah. Yeah, reverse kind of way. Right. Put

Andy Withrow: 23:03

it this way. He says, we often ask is Jesus God? Yeah. But that assumes that God is the known thing. And Jesus is the unknown. Exactly. And he says that it's better to reverse that and say, Is God, Jesus? Yes. That's what I meant. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, just another way of putting the same thing. And I think it's a good imagination shift for us to say, hey, is God Jesus? Is the father, known by knowing Jesus? Because we know a lot more about Jesus. And that was the whole point. Yeah. According to the Gospels is like, this is the we see the face of God and Jesus Christ. This is the revelation of who God is. Yeah, this is God's choice to say, This is who I am. If you want to know me know, this one.

Vanessa Caruso: 23:53

And then Jesus says, if you know me, if you have seen me, then rest assured, you know, God, no, I remember Trevor Hudson gave the exercise to write a column with God, then next to a column with Jesus, put associations with God on the left hand side, I should put that in the show notes. associations with God on the left hand side and associations with Jesus on the right hand side. And then try to reconcile them kind of backwards. Like let the Jesus column What's another word for Trump? Why do you want to kind of redo my vocabulary?

Andy Withrow: 24:43

Yeah, yeah, I know what you're okay. Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 24:46

super impose. Yes. It's just that feels like the thought thought experiment to really identify where there's lack of reconciliation. Yeah,

Andy Withrow: 24:57

that's good. That's a great exercise for for us. Yeah. So just thinking about how you read through the Gospels there's, in if you read through the Gospels as I to what does Jesus say about the Father? How often does he refer to the Father, it's, you start to notice it a lot more. It's really fascinating. Yeah. And to pay attention to it. Because there's a love between the father and the son that comes out. That in prayer were invited into, were ushered into that relationship. And so we pray Our Father, you can have in your imagination, the Father and the Son and yourself kind of in that moment, I think that's, that's intentional. I think that's what we're invited into.

Vanessa Caruso: 25:40

Okay. I hadn't actually thought of that I kind of thought are, as in humanity. Like I, that was the accent for me on our father is, oh, I don't I'm not praying alone. Like, yeah, my father. I'm remembering that in part of a family. I hadn't really thought. It's another way you could read that is Jesus is saying,

Andy Withrow: 26:02

he's putting himself in the car. Yeah. Our Father

Vanessa Caruso: 26:05

No. Like, do you ever talk to your siblings? And you say, by accident? Well, my mom said, and then you're like, sorry,

Andy Withrow: 26:12

I didn't know. She's your mom, too. Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 26:15

That was kind of like that.

Andy Withrow: 26:17

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Probably. I mean, you think he included himself? And even if he didn't, he's gonna be there. Like the intimacy between the Father and the Son are so close, that you can't, you really can't get one without the other. So

Vanessa Caruso: 26:34

it also makes me think, what are all the other words that could have started that prayer? Like, I'm, we're so used to the Lord's Prayer for those of us who grew up with it or pray regularly. But so we're like Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name thy kingdom. But it is a bit surprising that that's those are the first two words like I might have guessed it would be our God or Dear Holy One, or Almighty God? Yes. Yeah. That's a big one or judge of the nation's. That's a good one. Yeah. It changes the feeling of the prayer.

Andy Withrow: 27:15

Yeah. Who happens to be our father? Yes.

Vanessa Caruso: 27:21

Sir, dear sir, yeah. Yeah, exactly. But our Father,

Andy Withrow: 27:27

to whom it may concern? Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 27:34

Yeah, it's pretty like you could meditate on that for a long time. I'm realizing now the Our Father. I, there's this philosopher Marilyn Westfall, who said, I've said it before, because I love it. In the beginning, was relationship. That's how he summarizes Genesis, in the beginning was relationship. And this prayer feels like it's saying the same thing in two words. In one word, really?

Andy Withrow: 28:02

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's that relationship between the Father and the Son. It didn't have it doesn't really have a beginning.

Vanessa Caruso: 28:18

That's weird.

Andy Withrow: 28:19

Yeah. Because we believe that the sun is CO eternal with the Father. Yeah. So we talked about and remember when we did the origins classes, you know, one of the major themes was that God has always been a family, and that it's not something he invented, or created. For us. It was like, No, that's the default. That's, there's no such thing as nonfamily ever in the creation or non creation. Yeah. And so this idea that family is optional for us, or the sense of belonging to other people into God is, is an alien idea. Like family or community isn't an optional add on? Right? For a human person. That's interesting.

Vanessa Caruso: 29:15

It's super interesting.

Andy Withrow: 29:18

Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 29:20

Okay, in the exercises, there's, I don't know the like, Latin word for it. But um, there's this opportunity to contemplate the Trinity. Deciding what to do, like, like imagining the three talking about, what do we do? Should one of us go down there? What would that look like? Who would we send? What are the risks of that? What are the benefits of that? And so it's like an imaginative prayer exercise to what you're saying. Not God being like, Hmm, how am I going to feel Next things, but the Trinity whatever that looks like, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, contemplating together, the incarnation and and the what the cost of the Incarnation would likely look like and deciding together. Shall we get close to humans that way? Shall we make ourselves known that way? And then electing one of them? Interesting. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 30:31

Yeah, really interesting. Yeah, helpful exercise. So we start off with our Father in heaven. And we're invited into this intimacy as we've been talking about, which, again, just frames the whole, the whole thing, the whole prayer, because we're called into NT, right puts it this way, we're called by going by calling Godfather we're ushered into the family business. And the family business is participation in the kingdom of God. Or the world turned upside down. If you read through the Beatitudes, you read through the Sermon on the Mount was like, it's all about the world getting turned upside down. And its value system and everything else. Evil gets confronted, darkness gets faced. So going into the desert, let's face this stuff. That's the That's God's business. And we're invited into it not by ourselves, but like, No, this is what the family does. We go into the desert, we experience lent in this world, we push against these things in our prayer, and in the work that God gives us to do. You see it by following Jesus the sense of following Jesus deeper into the desert, or into the garden of Gethsemane at the very end Yeah. And and we see it at the cross as well. Right with confrontation with this darkness looks like but we also see the other side of it in calling God our Father, we see our salvation. We see the resurrection, we see the death of evil and the death of death itself. Death of death. Yeah, death dies. Wow, that was our Ash Wednesday theme. Oh my god. Death to death. Jeez.

Vanessa Caruso: 32:18

Really? Yeah. Yeah. Death to death. Yeah, I got it. Death dies. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 32:23

Death of death. Wow, cool. So our Father in heaven isn't just God, our Father does, wants the best for us. He does. He does want the best for us. But he's also has the authority and the power to see it done. So it's the in heaven part, I think, throne of heaven, intimacy, and power and power. So it's nice to have a good dad who's kind but if he's kind of a pushover, and a weakling, and can't actually advocate for you in any meaningful way. It's like, Oh, I love dad. He's got really great intentions. But to have it had was actually powerful. Yeah, like, no, that's not well, no child of mine. No, you know,

Vanessa Caruso: 33:12

my nose. Yeah. Wow, I'd never thought about that. And our father,

Andy Withrow: 33:18

who's in bad is my kid you step away, sir. Right now. Or you're gonna have some trouble like that kind of day. Oh, yeah. That's a good dad. Not just the nice and kind but the both good.

Vanessa Caruso: 33:37

Ooh, that that's kinda makes me feel things. Yeah. That's the in heaven part. I like that. That's what the in heaven is kind of then saying that's the power part the capability the don't know how to say it, but it's the otherness

Andy Withrow: 34:03

of God. Yeah. Okay. Our authority, the strength. So this is the prayer that Jesus taught his disciples that anyone who would seek to follow Jesus says this is how you pray. That's the other piece of we didn't really talk about and Darrell Johnson picks up on this in his book is like, we don't have to wonder is this an okay prayer? Is this an effective prayers like this is the prayer that Jesus gave us. So it's probably reliable.

Vanessa Caruso: 34:40

Yes. It just makes me feel stupid about how much time I've spent, like trying to craft really good prayers. I don't mean up for public consumption. I just mean on my own, like searching for the words and the feelings and just the angst I've expressed pranced

Andy Withrow: 35:02

Yeah, well I think there's like it's a very it's a very simple but also very broad type of prayer in general in a lot of ways even though it's like has it's specific to our Father in his very specific location identity relationship covers a lot of ground but then you're looking at your kingdom come your will be done. On earth as in heaven give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our sins as we forgive deliver from evil. Like you go a lot of places with each of those lines, right? Oh, you can spend spend a day on our Father in heaven? Yeah, easily. Yeah. What is your kingdom come? What does that mean? We'll read through the sermon on the mount you get a lot of ideas immediately, like oh, when you say pray Your kingdom come You mean this, this and this? Or you can look at Jesus in the gospels. Oh, Kingdom Come is sight to the blind. Oh Kingdom Come is touching the untouchable Oh Kingdom Come is raising the dead. You know, and so you can make you can make your lists like, okay, when you say pray Your kingdom come, you're asking me to pray for these specific things in my life in the world around me. So you get lots of ideas. Yeah, Kingdom Come looks like which is kind of an abstract thing until you start putting the data points down. Oh, that's kingdom come. Pray for that. Let's finish up with this great. This prayer takes us into the heart of Jesus relationship with his father. And it shows us who God is and what he cares about. If you're prayed these things, these are God's priority, what God cares about. And so just like the theme of the Sermon on the Mount, the theme of the Lord's Prayer is bringing God's kingdom to Earth to transform our broken and dark world, and lent gives us the season to be honest about how broken and dark it is in the presence of God, and to transform it into the kingdom of God. So one practice, and maybe you can think of one to share mine, if you have one for Lent is to pray the Lord's Prayer. And one idea is take you get I used to think take a line for each day of the week, because you kind of you can break it down to seven line, there's different ways to break it up. So I don't want to get into that. But there's you could do one line. I like that each day of the week. But for Lent, you could do although we're already into,

Vanessa Caruso: 37:53

oh, week, three, three,

Andy Withrow: 37:57

let you could do one for each week. Anyway, however you want to do it. One, take a line a day or a line a week and just let that shape how you pray for yourself and others. So if it's our Father in heaven, it's like God, remind me that you are my father in heaven and all the things we talked about, you're a kind, you're generous, you care, you're present. All those things, you pray that for your neighbor, for your family. You can pray for all the needs around you through the lens of our Father in heaven. I love

Vanessa Caruso: 38:31

it. Like let it be the opener. Yeah. For your prayer,

Andy Withrow: 38:35

or even the theme. Yeah, carriers are pretty good. Pray for all sorts of things. Yeah. But just let it kind of be that the source or the root of the prayer, or the theme of the prayer, the lens of the prayer is Father in heaven.

Vanessa Caruso: 38:49

I like that. Because one of the things that keeps me from praying is overwhelmed. Like, where do I start? And how do I remember all the needs? Yeah. And what do I say about them? Like that kind of block? Yeah. The perfectionism, which leads to procrastination, which leads to not praying. So this is a way around that it's saying. Jesus said, this is a good prayer, taking the first line, and letting that guide me knowing that there will be tomorrow or next week where I'll, how would be your name? Yeah. Something else go.

Andy Withrow: 39:34

Something else. Good.

Vanessa Caruso: 39:35

I like it. And it's a great idea.

Andy Withrow: 39:36

And it routes your prayer life in the in the relationship rather than in the things around you. Which I think is the actual only hope for the things around you is if you're actually rooted in this relationship with our other Oh, those are my thoughts for the day. Wow.

Vanessa Caruso: 39:57

Thank you, Andy. One idea that came to mind when you said in practice was that I've rewritten the Lord's Prayer a few times, just in my own words and not trying to sound cool, like not for anyone else to read, but as a way to try to understand what it means and to personalize it. So that comes to mind as, as something to do. Should I do to kind of translate it? as honestly as possible?

Andy Withrow: 40:30

Yeah. I think that you have an example. Yeah, that you can put

Vanessa Caruso: 40:33

in? Oh, yeah, I can put example in. But what sparked that was I think notables whoever did it. And I read our daily rice. Oh, yeah, I remember this one. Yeah, I was like, right. So much of the world. That would be the more accurate word there. And so that kind of sparked my imagination. I mean, looking at the messages version would be great, too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. What are we gonna talk about next? And I know Me neither.

Andy Withrow: 41:13

We could do more of the Lord's prayer or if you got something. Okay. We'll be back. We'll be back in a couple of weeks. Yes. Yes. Okay, thanks, guys. It was fun. Yeah, good times. Thanks, everybody.