Vanessa's "How to FALL" Guide

Vanessa Caruso: 0:01

Welcome to the bear with me podcast where we aim to integrate belief and practice in the Christian life. Hi, everybody, it's Vanessa, and Andy. Yeah, I'm here to. And today. Well, welcome to bear with me.

Andy Withrow: 0:27

Yeah, welcome back. This is season three, I guess forget for accountants.

Vanessa Caruso: 0:31

I mean, if. But it is. Yeah. It's a big day. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to try it again.

Andy Withrow: 0:39

Yeah. And it's also a big day because at least when we're recording is the day before fall.

Vanessa Caruso: 0:45

It is the Autumnal Equinox. Yes. Well said is tomorrow. Yes. And that's to do with overtopping. It does. Yes. I actually didn't know what it was until you told me fall starts next week. Last week. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we wanted to talk today about how to fall

Andy Withrow: 1:07

gracefully. Yes, that would be helpful. You have to fall. This is how you should fall, which we all do have to fall at least once

Vanessa Caruso: 1:15

sometimes. So yes, today is the eve of fall, at least here in North America, or the northern hemisphere. I found so

Andy Withrow: 1:25

in the southern hemisphere, what's happening is it's spring.

Vanessa Caruso: 1:30

Is it? I think so. Really? Yeah. That works. It's gonna be summer. Yeah, you're right. because summer is winter. They're here nuts. It's so weird. I I'm so curious what Advent in summer looks like. That's what I'm most interested in from Australians. Interesting. You know, like, how would that change the season to celebrate Christmas? And Advent during summer? Right, buddy knows. I know, we should ask them. That'd be fun during Advent to talk to someone from the southern hemisphere.

Andy Withrow: 2:03

Next time next next telephone. Right.

Vanessa Caruso: 2:05

Great. So how to fall. So I wanted to talk about this because I love making guides. I've made a how to admin guide, I

Andy Withrow: 2:17

can attest to this. You love making guides? I do. You've got a number of them.

Vanessa Caruso: 2:20

I do. So I'm really rounding up here. What's the How to summer, how to summer, how to Advent? Advent, how to lent how to lent but it was mostly fasting. So there could be more done there. How to New Year? I did. That might be all okay. So like spring and fall are just calling

Andy Withrow: 2:43

to the How to seasonal. Yes. toolbox. Yeah. Okay.

Vanessa Caruso: 2:48

So I never used to really think much about the seasons spiritually. You know, I grew up in Southern California. And I worked at this restaurant called endless summer. And it was an endless summer. They're like all year round. Yes. Which is weird. Yeah. And even in Southern California, like it gets a little crisper, but you don't see the changes like you do up here. So I think living up here for the last six years, has made me appreciate that. The outer world offers us things for our souls and our learning that are really helpful. So part of my interest in you know how to fall well, is because I just want to keep time well, in like the capital T time way. Like the liturgical calendar is important to me. It helps me keep time well, and helps me remember what's really important. And what's come before me and what I'm living for. Yeah. What are you thinking about?

Andy Withrow: 3:52

Yeah, well, it's like several things at once. I was thinking about how there's a new book coming out by an author that you and I like, yes, that's do this theme. Oh, my gosh, on how didn't have it time? Yes. It's about the liturgical calendars is Jamie Smith. Yeah. When's that due out? You know, yesterday. It was was due out yesterday, that release day, just two days before fall? Yes. Wow. And J before pockets. Do you think he timed it with our podcast?

Vanessa Caruso: 4:17

He did. I was on the q&a with him with his review team on Monday. And it was so fun. Yeah. And it's all about how to inhabit time. Well, how to keep time. Well, his main question in the book is not who are you? Or how are you? But when are

Andy Withrow: 4:33

you? Yeah, it's not a question probably asked very often. No. So it's an interesting one. So we'll probably get to some of that. Yeah. To in this time. Yeah. Plus, I was thinking about how I if you've ever done Strength Finders, yeah. Context is one of my top five. Oh, do you have do you have you done it? No, I

Vanessa Caruso: 4:52

don't I just know what it is. I haven't done it.

Andy Withrow: 4:54

Context is like as context is really important. So like I find meaning in knowing where I'm located. Did and when I'm located, it like helps me for some understanding what's happening. That's why it's probably why I'd much rather have a face to face conversation with someone is a lot true for a lot of people than a phone call. Some people might prefer the phone call, but I just depends so much on. Okay, what are they doing with their face? What are they doing with your body? How should I personally, you know, like, context is so helpful. So this just makes me think of that, like, Andy, where are we? When are we located? Yeah, for what life should look like, the shape that life might take is fascinating.

Vanessa Caruso: 5:29

I love that I didn't even know context was a strength. There's lots of strengths and strengths. Okay. It might be one of mine, too. Well, you shouldn't do the thing. We'll find out later. That's part of falling gracefully. So when are you? That's part of the reason why I wanted to pay attention to fall. Not only I think the question when are you can be about your stage of life, I think that's really important. Growing up, I kind of had this picture of Christianity, like it's true in all times, in all places for all people. And the older I've gotten, I've come to realize how much stage of life and stage of faith depends on the shape and the fruit and the expression of life with God. And so I really, that's really important to me. And for people that listen to recognize whatever stage of life there in and kind of adapt or customize the message or the invitations or even scripture to that stage?

Andy Withrow: 6:40

Well, it just reminds me that that's such a key component of discernment in general, thinking of Gordon Smith's book on listening for the voice of Jesus where he takes he kind of takes Jonathan Edwards, Jonathan, Wesley, and Ignatius, like three different streams of Christian tradition, but they have over they overlap in in so many ways, in terms of how do we hear God's voice, but so much of that, other than knowing what the voice sounds like through the Bible? ping it assuming that God is present to us in every season of our life and every day of our life. What do we discern God is speaking to us through the events that are happening right through this context. So the time and the place that we find ourselves in?

Vanessa Caruso: 7:27

That's that's everything. That's it done show.

Andy Withrow: 7:30

Yeah. And yeah. Thanks for well, specifically,

Vanessa Caruso: 7:35

oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. You said something that reminded me of something else. Oh, well. So that's a reason why, why I want to pay attention to the fall. Another big one is my favorite quote ever is God comes disguised as your life. And so I mean, it's what I've just been saying. But it's just my conviction, that God comes disguised in our context, and in our limitations in our stage of life, in our personality, in our history, in our location in our job in our relational situations. So believing that God comes disguised in our lives means that every season has an opportunity. So when I started to think about fall, I realized I don't even know what fall is about, like, why does the fall exist? That's a big theological question. But why does autumn exist in particular? So just, most people probably know this. I never lived. That's what I was saying about California. I never lived with too much awareness of the seasons, and what they feel like what they look like, what they lead to what they follow. I did not have context in Southern California. So a little bit about autumn. Autumn is a transition season between summer and winter. Andy did you Google? It did.

Andy Withrow: 9:03

Okay.

Vanessa Caruso: 9:04

But it's not just by by that. Yeah. Yeah. It does. It's adding up. It's not just a means to an end, though. In a way that transition season seasons feel a little bit like that, like, Oh, we're just gearing up towards hibernation winter. But I like the idea that it's an end in itself as well. Like, there's a beauty and a point to fall on its own. The interesting thing about fall, is that it to me the main theme and fall is letting, letting drop letting go. And that's because of trees and leaves. So apparently, the northern hemisphere doesn't all call the season, Autumn fall. It's mostly just North America, because it's when our trees leaves change colors and fall. Yeah, so that's just kind of a North American ism I found out

Andy Withrow: 9:59

but if One calls the spring spring. Yeah. Spring and Fall kind of a nice parallel. I

Vanessa Caruso: 10:04

know that spring an autumn for a lot of people. Okay. What's the what's autumn mean? What's

Andy Withrow: 10:09

the root of that? Do you know?

Vanessa Caruso: 10:10

Yeah. Harvest? It has its roots in harvest. Yeah,

Andy Withrow: 10:15

I was gonna ask about that. Like, we need a we need a farmer in here to tell us more about fall we do harvest season,

Vanessa Caruso: 10:19

it's unfortunately pretty important. Yeah, like reading the etymology and seeing that the kind of the roots, the harvest roots were dropped because we don't do that anymore. So many of us were not connected to food production in the same way that it dictates the season for us. So there's something lost there. And not. Not knowing, not harvesting anything. Some of the people listening to this might, and they would know more.

Andy Withrow: 10:48

Yeah. And will write in the comment section as they

Vanessa Caruso: 10:52

do. So another interesting thing about tomorrow is that the day and night are the same length.

Andy Withrow: 11:01

Day and night are the same like wait, is this the one where you can put the egg on it was that that's the link that's the summer. Oh, I don't know that. The equinox? Wait, no, it is What's tomorrow? It's the equinox? No, because it's the spring and fall I think. Is it the equinox where you can you can balance an egg perfectly because of because of

Vanessa Caruso: 11:22

your kidding. Centrifugal force. That word

Andy Withrow: 11:26

is a word. I don't know if

Vanessa Caruso: 11:31

I'm going to try this. I'm going to look it up. Yeah, that one snake. Okay, that's the first falling practice. Oh, but you have to listen to this, like ASAP, or whatever. egg

Andy Withrow: 11:41

egg. I think it's the equinox. I can't remember now.

Vanessa Caruso: 11:45

So isn't that super cool that there is a day when night and day are the same length or equal in length. And then progressively towards a winter solstice, like mid late December. That will be the the shortest day in the longest night for us in the northern hemisphere. Or at least here so. So fall does have this progression to it. And this letting go. Whereas winter, it's easier for me to think of like hibernation barren trees, lots of rain. Summer, the disciplines of summer to me are like, jump in the water every chance you get Terry loiter, because it's summer. Yeah. So what are the limitations? The fall? That's what I'm wondering.

Andy Withrow: 12:36

No. You're right. Do you ever think of like, where you are? Like, if you live to an average age? Where are you in the season of your life?

Vanessa Caruso: 12:45

Oh,

Andy Withrow: 12:46

like? Is it like late summer, early summer, wild fall? You know, if you're paralleling sort of Yes. Winter is kind of down. That's the end. And then yeah, new life is getting to spring.

Vanessa Caruso: 13:01

I've never thought about that. But I love it. Like, spring for a couple decades. Summer for a couple decades. Yeah. Fall and Winter. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, summer. The end of summer. Maybe live

Andy Withrow: 13:15

in your summer right now? Yeah. And last summer? Yeah. Just like we used to work. Exactly. Sorry, I derailed No, no, probably. We're talking I love that. Getting ready for the winter. Is that what

Vanessa Caruso: 13:30

you remember? Yeah. So fall. So one of the things that captured my imagination about fall was reading Psalm 46. That is the psalm with the famous line Be still and know that I am God. And when I looked up still in the concordance, I saw that the word kind of you know, they give a lot of different definitions and stuff. But one of one of the first ones in the definition part was slacking. So to like, slack in relax, let drop sank. And that surprised me because I tend to think of still as peaceful like you, you're fine, you have everything worked out, your heart's not beating, you're not distracted. So I think of still is like, kind of an end destination or something like that. Whereas this version of still, the Hebrew word behind still is much more of like a has much more movement to it, you know, to slack in your hands or to slack in a rope or to let drop to let something drop that's much. It has a different vibe to me than what I always interpreted it as still. It was very consoling to me because there are only a few times when I'm in prayer, that I actually feel still Yeah, but there's nine 80% of the time where I feel like I'm trying to let to let God love me to let go to let drop to let my thoughts exist. So letting was just like such a evocative idea for me. And it made me think of trees. Like trees are graceful at letting things go. Yeah. Really good at it. Yeah. So that so that's what got me excited about the fall is Oh, I feel like God's saying something to me personally, about learning how to slack in my grip or how to unfurl my hand or to let something drop or to relax in the trees are teachers in this and I'm I happen to live in a place where the next month is going to be a gorgeous display of letting drop.

Andy Withrow: 15:55

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Anything I mean, being there dropping leaves or the drop? Is that are they dropping? They're like cones, pine cones and see other seeds as well. Are they probably is where ignorance is really on display. I mean, just makes me think that it's not an end that the death is an end in itself that there's like, a purpose for the next season. Oh, yeah. Right. Love that. In it just yeah, that parallel with the letting things drop the being still the letting things go, because there's a bigger story at work. Part of that we don't have control over. That's awesome.

Vanessa Caruso: 16:35

That's awesome. Yeah. Isn't that beautiful?

Andy Withrow: 16:39

Yeah. Did I ever tell you that fall is my favorite season? No. Is it I have definitely told you that. I tell everybody that do you?

Vanessa Caruso: 16:47

It sounds kind of familiar. You're sure is like would you say?

Andy Withrow: 16:51

You just don't remember? I tell everybody that okay. Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

Vanessa Caruso: 16:55

I believe you is why I don't know. Oh,

Andy Withrow: 17:00

it's it's great. I mean, I think it's I think a lot of it is the festivity stuff like you've got the seasons in their harvest and Halloween associated with that the pumpkins and and as things get, I don't know if things get darker and colder there's it feels like there's community stuff that happens. Yeah. And Thanksgivings in there, you're leading towards Christmas just seems like this season of festivity. But I also associate it with that kind of that longing and that bitter sweetness. Yeah. And, and I think for me, it's that symbol of, of loss. And which sounds weird that that'd be my favorite season. But I think the power of Fall is a resonating power or a coherence power years with feelings. That even I probably wouldn't have been able to articulate or didn't wasn't able to articulate as a kid growing up, but feelings I had of loss. And, but combined with this beauty, yeah. And there's like the on the nose loss where you actually lose loved ones, family members or friends over time. And there's also just the loss of people growing up and things changing and things aren't the like, I felt this as a kid a lot. Things aren't what like they used to be, like, as a kid, you'd have like your family come like extended family come for Thanksgiving, and Christmas and holidays, and all these things. And as you get older, it's not just loose, like that group changing through death, but it's also good things like family is getting bigger and you just can't You can't meet the same and so you don't meet as the whole group anymore. You meet us at a kind of a smaller group. And so you're just kind of mourning on the one hand, these great memories, which are also celebrate, like, that's kind of fall to me is like, yeah, you're mourning and you're celebrating at the same time. Andy, I think that's why it's my

Vanessa Caruso: 18:54

favorite. That is beautiful. And that just resonates use that word with what I learned about the fall. Like it's this paradox of harvest and abundance, like there's a ton of fruit, right? And food in season. One of the hashtags for me about fall has been sharing is caring. It's so cliche, but it just feels like it embodies the fall to me sharing is caring, mixed with the loss and the letting go and the change as we approach winter, like actual winter and then kind of quote unquote, winter. I love those together. And you said something else. So sleep is something that's coming up for me as I enter into the fall like one of the questions I put in my guide is what's something that you care more about now than you did this last Summer, like, what's something you value more now. And just in the last couple of weeks, sleep feels like something I'm paying a little bit more attention to. And as a season, fall feels like a great time to look at our falling asleep. routines, or rituals, kind of in preparation for this idea of hibernation. Like if if winter is a time of rest in multiple ways. This would be the time to think about gearing up for last. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Preparing to rest are interest. And something else that has meant something to me is that I recently redid my rule of life over the summer. And I just had some new ideas about how to structure it and how to word it. And I'm really excited about it has like multiple charts and graphs, pages, and I

Andy Withrow: 20:58

love it. Like bar charts or pie charts,

Vanessa Caruso: 21:01

boxes and arrows. Okay, like things that lead to other things come turns. Yeah, it's really fun. So it was it's, you know, it's like full of stuff. I'm really excited about it. I would like, look at it every day, and just delight in it, you know. And then I went on this little retreat last weekend, I guess, just for a couple hours at Mary Lake sanctuary, really beautiful place. And I just felt like, God reminded me that there's all these things I can do in the 16 hours that I'm awake in the day. But there are eight hours in the day where I'm totally unconscious. And that actually might be the time when I'm the most cooperative to what God's doing in my life like this. It felt like a squeamish. Yeah, it's very still, like relaxed, slackened to the court drool coming out, you know, like lines on my face. It kind of made me think of a mom, who gets a lot of work done when her kid is sleeping, I kind of wondered, like God is God like, I can really like get my best stuff in her done, because she's cooperative, to the max. So I felt a little convicted by that, like, I felt very self centered. Looking at my rule of life, that even on the page, it didn't show, it was just the 16 hours a day, which is still an illusion I'm not doing

Andy Withrow: 22:37

all of that was some of it the illusion of here's what I control. And that's the most important stuff, right is what I control. Right? And some of that's true, like some it's like, the whole point is, what is my role? And what is my responsibility? And we don't usually think about that at sleep other than maybe, well, I need to make sure that I'm getting it. Yeah, right, getting the right. Right amounts. But this plays into kind of what I think we've talked about before is like kind of the Sabbath principle stuff.

Vanessa Caruso: 23:06

Someone's very no problem.

Andy Withrow: 23:11

But the Sabbath ideas that yeah, trusting God with the parts of us that are designed to rest Yeah, rest as trust, rest as peace and celebration. Yeah. So we think of Sabbath like the one day and seventh principle was kind of tied in all also to this resting in this sleeping, I think like the in the Bible, at least the Hebrew or the Israelite day, started at sundown. I know, I love that. That's so strange. It's like sundown it's a new day. It's so counterintuitive to the way we think.

Vanessa Caruso: 23:54

But isn't it amazing? I thought about that on this when I was on this retreat that I wonder if I could restructure my rule of life because it's kind of I have like a daily column weekly, monthly annually, to have it start at 10pm the night before. So and then have the sleep kind of allotted in there, which is where I am like surrendered to God. And then, you know, the two thirds at the bottom. I then wake up to my day, I wake up to what God is already doing in the world.

Andy Withrow: 24:27

Yeah, yeah, that's a it's an interesting reframe because it gives it says, The first third of my day. I'm not doing anything. Yeah. Actively.

Vanessa Caruso: 24:37

How true is that to theologically?

Andy Withrow: 24:40

Yeah, and it reminds me of the first day that I mean, if you go back to Genesis one, you're looking at the creation and the creation of male and female that humanity. The first day they experienced first full day experience they experienced the Sabbath day. Like that's their first day because on day six,

Vanessa Caruso: 24:58

You're kidding, right? Andy, that is so

Andy Withrow: 25:01

and so it's like God's done all this work. And then it's the Sabbath and let's rest and celebrate and enjoy the creation. But from the human's perspective, it's day one is Sabbath is rest in celebrating what God has done. And then oh, and then you get to work.

Vanessa Caruso: 25:20

That is so cool. To kind of parallels

Andy Withrow: 25:23

that idea. Yeah, we start with the evening, we start with the rest. Knowing that God is the one who is really doing the most of the work that counts here. Yeah. And we wake up to it and respond to it.

Vanessa Caruso: 25:36

Which is Jamie Smith's idea of time in this new book, How to inhabit time, time is not blocks on a calendar to manage time is something it's a means of grace. It's something we are swept up in. It's something we awake to.

Andy Withrow: 25:56

Which sounds like you're what you've talked about before the distinction between the Tick Tock time Yeah, the Kairos time. Yeah, the fullness of time this stuff? Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 26:07

I love this conversation already. And how to fall, how to follow up how to fall asleep. How do you reframe what it is we do and what it is God does? There's a letting go. They're like it reminds me of that definition of prayer. I think it's Dave David Benner. That prayer is not something primarily that we do. It's what God does in us when we open ourselves to God. And so my rule of life is not something primarily I do. It's something God does in me, when I surrendered to

Andy Withrow: 26:42

learn to be aware of in responding to.

Vanessa Caruso: 26:46

Yeah. So where should we go from here? What are all the things you want to cover? No, no, but I just you know, want to

Andy Withrow: 26:57

make space for ages here. Was it? Yeah. Do you wanna do how to? Yeah. Or did you realize?

Vanessa Caruso: 27:03

Yeah, I think I, I think that's

Andy Withrow: 27:08

good. We're cueing the people at home that we actually do have scripts sometimes. Oh, yeah, we actually do have a plan.

Vanessa Caruso: 27:14

Yeah, we do. Contrary to how it might sound sometimes

Andy Withrow: 27:18

just rattling random papers like, Oh, yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 27:21

Where are we at? Okay, some how ideas. So I think reflection and time for reflection, during all seasons is key. So in this guide, I did put down some questions that I wanted to answer myself. Yeah. But I don't even think the questions really matter. In a way I think it's saying, I matter. And knowing when I am, in my stage of life in my season, of a lifespan, in the liturgical calendar, in my relationships, that matters enough to take some time to reflect. So that's a how to is just to give yourself permission to block off some time and say, I'm going to, I don't want the fall to pass me by without paying attention to it or without sensing God's invitations to me personally in it. That'd be number one.

Andy Withrow: 28:26

Yeah, that's good. I mean, I'm just I'm mindful. Also, this is a season. That is crazy for a lot of people. That's true. And I can speak to the parents among us, because back to school, it's back for depending on what your your work is. Sometimes that can be Yeah, fall can be a hectic time. Yeah. So you feel like you're pushed in, there's maybe less margins than ever and so it can be difficult to even just pry open 20 minutes to, to yourself to think. But if you can get it get it.

Vanessa Caruso: 29:02

Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 29:05

And you got so are we on the house, actually, because the questions?

Vanessa Caruso: 29:10

Yeah. I have all these different practices and ideas. That for me, I tried to pick things that evoke being grounded, like being connected to the earth thinking of harvest, food production, leaves falling on the ground. When we walk we sometimes

Andy Withrow: 29:33

depending on like, I, every year we go to the pumpkin patch, kids, and that's, you know, yeah, just kind of a thing you do in October. Yeah. For fun, but like it does, like even just that simple practice. Yeah, I'm just walking in the end we got we got the Mitchells. Yep. Which is fun. And muddy, very muddy. Yeah. I don't know. It's really simple. It's kind I want to one of my favorite things we do. Yeah,

Vanessa Caruso: 30:02

there are those rituals in fall. That reminds me of finally coming around to Bloodstones. When I moved here, I was like, just not getting one stone. So I'm sure a lot of prideful people like me think that to see them everywhere couldn't help it. Yeah, because it feels like a it freed me to walk in the mud. You're practical. Yeah. Because I'm wearing white Converse right now. You don't want to go to the pumpkin panels. And so I would actually not want to get dirty, which is not how I want to live my life. I want to be free to walk in, in the mud. So Bloodstones are good for that. That wasn't on my list of practices. Okay, what bison

Andy Withrow: 30:51

Bloodstones?

Vanessa Caruso: 30:54

Should? Would I highlight?

Andy Withrow: 30:57

You got so many things. Are you going to post this somewhere? Yes, on our blog, because you got a whole quadrant of let's see 1234567 Once a 21. How ideas that we're not going to cover? No. And then you on the other page, you've got a list of reflective questions to help us enter and kind of this mindset of how to fall well. That yeah, so we'll post that on. Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes. But also we have a website that we've barely done anything with. But we've got a few things out there, including I think how to summer guide. Amazing, but we'll can put this on there. Yeah. How to follow guide. Yeah, we have a collection of how to guides, among other things.

Vanessa Caruso: 31:39

Yes, well, we'll do that. Okay, well,

Andy Withrow: 31:41

why don't you pick one of these? Two, one or two of these? How ideas and then?

Vanessa Caruso: 31:48

Yes.

Andy Withrow: 31:51

Are they just also good?

Vanessa Caruso: 31:53

No, it's just that I'm overwhelmed. Okay, let me just think what, what actually matters to me right now. So and you're gonna have to cut this out. I'm starting to feel self conscious about how much time I'm

Andy Withrow: 32:11

taking on you're thinking about? Well, I'm just looking at what's the tell me about? John Keats to autumn read or listen to the audio to autumn by John Keats. So

Vanessa Caruso: 32:24

yeah, so that poem is just full of really cool words, a lot of them that I don't use in my daily life, but that are very evocative. And so as I read it, I thought, Oh, this feels like Alexia Divina like, it feels like a sacred text for fall, in that you could read through it not trying to grasp the meaning of an old poem, but, but listening for what's the word that is like the juiciest for me. And then taking that word to God. And saying, Why am I so drawn to this? Like, there's something about this, that has something for me, and so I'm gonna hold on to it. I'm gonna pay attention to it. And I'm gonna see what, what it means for me. I had that experience. On this retreat, I took a little walk in the woods, and I found the most gorgeous, our beautiful tree. I mean, our beautiful trees. If that's not a metaphor for the Pascale mystery, I don't know what it is because it's like this gorgeous salmon cinnamon colored, oiled bark. I mean, it's flawless. And it's shining in the sun. It looks like it's oiled. You know, it's just like, bark, varnished burnished, and those words. And then it's these coyly paper coils that are coming off of the bark and these perfect little curls. Yeah. And I just was so drawn to it, like what is happening, and why is this so beautiful? So I grabbed a little one of the coils and I just held on to it for my walk. So I had no idea why I was drawn to it. But by the end of that little retreat reflection, it felt like there's something in that for me something about being self forgetful, and less self conscious, like the Arbutus tree is kind of bark forgetful. And it allows its skin to coil and curl off. And it reveals something beautiful on the inside. That feels like a metaphor for for the fall. But it also feels like a message or an invitation from God to me, like what would it be like to uncurl my hands and my self consciousness? My perfectionism. So that's what I mean by that. That Keats poem is maybe in in just looking at those words, there's something there's something there and maybe it will, it will reflect itself even in nature.

Andy Withrow: 35:01

Yeah, that's good. You got in here, you've got a link to a list of grounding techniques. Yeah. As you mentioned before, it could be interesting. Do you

Vanessa Caruso: 35:09

know that grounding is a real thing? Have we talked about this? I don't think we've talked about Yeah. So grounding, I thought was just like a woowoo word for yoga teachers, oh, stuff like that. Like, oh, we just need to be grounded, like a metaphor for like standing or sitting. It's it's like a scientific real thing. Oh, I

Andy Withrow: 35:29

just always thought in terms of context, again, oh, like, oh, be aware of where you're at. be in contact with what's around you. Yes. And in to have that kind of give you direction for what the moment is.

Vanessa Caruso: 35:45

That is true. That matters. That's a part of it. But that's still a little bit of, it's still a little bit abstract. I'm talking about their, their stuff in the earth. And when we have our feet on the ground, or when we lay on the ground, or when we're barefoot on the ground, or when we're in the water, it actually does something to us physiologically, and there are studies about this. So it's like, there's scientific backing, to touching things of the earth with our bodies. That

Andy Withrow: 36:20

touching calibrates tree, would you say touching the beauty? Yes.

Vanessa Caruso: 36:23

Yeah. hugging trees. You know, it's not just a woowoo thing. It's not just like, oh, some people think just that. It's not.

Andy Withrow: 36:31

But then by definition, aren't you? Because,

Vanessa Caruso: 36:33

yeah, it's a catch 22. So those grounding things at first, I was like, okay, whatever I'll like take off my shoes on the grass. And now I take off my shoes, you know, when I'm on grass when I can't, because I just believe that there's something happening. It's like prayer, believe that something's happening within me.

Andy Withrow: 36:54

Interesting. Take a walk in your neighborhood after dark. Just to give you some ideas to take a walk? And was you have a link to that one? Uh huh. So there's maybe some that's a

Vanessa Caruso: 37:05

Cal Newport link? Oh, yeah. So he's the tech free or like, low tech kind of guy. And so he believes strongly in taking walks, to let ourselves integrate what we're learning and thinking without podcasts without other voices

Andy Withrow: 37:22

without you processing time, apart from those kinds of inputs. Yeah, that makes a lot.

Vanessa Caruso: 37:27

So again, I just thought that was for people who liked trees and nature. And I was like, Well, I'm not that kind of person who trees

Andy Withrow: 37:32

in nature.

Vanessa Caruso: 37:35

But there's more there.

Andy Withrow: 37:38

Let's, so we'll we'll post this lots of more ideas that we've scratched the surface. But I want to talk real quick about some of these questions.

Vanessa Caruso: 37:46

Oh, sure. Yes, so what questions are important, there's this amazing meditation by Anand Robbins,

Andy Withrow: 37:57

post this on as well, this is just a list of questions was just some reflection questions specifically around how to fall? Yeah, and how to kind of integrate this into our spiritual practice. Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 38:08

So I think questions around letting drop or letting go Are, are particular to this season in a way that we wouldn't ask in spring, right in the same way. So I like some of those questions like what needs to be let go of and released in order for me to go on? Or what's come to a natural end? And what would that look like to just acknowledge that and to keep going. I also like things, like, name, your top three priorities for the fall? Not to be too rigid about it, but just to wonder what actually what actually comes up and if I'm going to be a person who regularly reflects when winter solstice does come right before Christmas, if I look back over the fall season, what would I consider successful and so that like front loading, and then the looking back, the book ending is really important in reflection like to have some intention and awareness and space as you enter something and then to have some space at the end to look back and to say, did what I think happened? What is it what I thought God was inviting me into? What how did that pan out? Otherwise I just keep kind of sleepwalking through life right and I don't feel that connected to what God's doing in my life.

Andy Withrow: 39:35

Yeah, like this was come to a natural end in your life that needs to be let go of released weighs on you. But doesn't bring you substance anymore. So those reflections about what are the things that need to die? Because I think we have such an aversion to like nothing should die. Nothing should die ever. Like it's like our Yeah, reflexive or something but just recognizing it's okay and necessary that things must die. and that will lead in God's timing to new life for other things. Yeah, the different are the same things in a different form, I don't know. And so just trying to be good at think for me one of the one of the takeaways for for our time, as we kind of come to wrap up is just that idea of letting being okay with letting things die and mourning it well, not just dying. It's just like, remembering Well, being okay with being sad about it, but also being present to what's what's happening now and being open to what God wants to do in the next season.

Vanessa Caruso: 40:37

It's beautiful. It's perfect that that tritium is in the fall, like the three day veil is thin season, which is All Saints Day, All Souls Day, and All Hallows Eve, right. And so that's like, right around Halloween, when we It does feel like the veil between heaven and earth. Life and death is particularly thin. So what you just said about mourning? Well, that does feel specific to the fall.

Andy Withrow: 41:14

Yeah, it feels like for for the Christian that falls are both looking back, but looking for like that season of the memories and what we've lost, but also looking for and that's around all saints for remembering, especially those that have died over the years. But also looking forward. Because in Christ, there's new life and Resurrection and the seed becomes something new. Right. And so also looking forward with joy and hope. Yeah, of what's next.

Vanessa Caruso: 41:45

Great, Andy, just one last question. If you have an answer, anything that's bringing you joy or connection lately, like is there any practice or

Andy Withrow: 41:58

exposure before it's my favorite, right? Love this seven year? Yeah. It's always this is always the time of year the of getting back, like, the summer is great, because you're taking a big break. And lots of people are doing that. And in the fall, both in my own personal life, it's us as a family kind of coming back and getting into routines. But it's also as a pastor, other people coming back to community or being part of this church, where it's like, everything's kind of in full. And if you're we feel or I feel especially this season, because the last two years has not been that feeling but yeah, like, wah, wah, like no, yeah. So this feels for the first time in a long time. Like, you know, you're back into a rhythm of family and community life and, and all that. And that's,

Vanessa Caruso: 42:50

yeah, love it. You reminded me so my favorite thing right now is that we came up with a full schedule. Like I got this huge whiteboard, which is like, dreamy for me. And I just put Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday on it, like, what's the template for our family life? In the fall? So we decided Mondays would be make it through Mondays. So you know, there's like some grace there.

Andy Withrow: 43:19

Make it through Monday. Yeah. I mean, make it through Monday. Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 43:24

Just it's like the fall of the week where you're like, you know, it could be hard. Wednesday is board game night. It's not Alliterative. But so we started that last week, we had people over kids over we tried a new board game, so fun and chaotic. So to start this morning, we were like, Oh, who do we want to invite for board game night? So just having it on the schedule, like Leo sees it, we see it. It's right there. And it's like, oh, that's what today is. It's waffle Wednesday, and it's board game night. Thursday's documentary night. Okay, so we love documentaries. But when you sit down to watch movie, no one's going to choose the documentary. You can choose to schedule if you'd like we have to. That's only what we're allowed to watch documentaries. So last Thursday, we watched biggest little farm. Oh, yeah. The best. Yes, it's one of the best documentaries and Leo loved it. So that's my favorite thing right now is that we did front load a little bit like what would be dreamy and now it's there and now it kind of dictates our day in a way that we're really happy about you know, because otherwise don't be like oh, let's we said we wanted to play a board game but it's too busy or I'm tired or whatever but can't it's on the it's on the thing or you

Andy Withrow: 44:36

avoid the what should we do tonight? And then it takes an hour for everyone to decide or not decide. Yeah, not agree.

Vanessa Caruso: 44:41

I even made a list of all the documentaries so we don't even look on Netflix. You have to go through that list. But that's what I'm loving. Great. Thanks, Sandy. Do it again. Fall. Well. Hello, everyone. I'll speak

Andy Withrow: 45:00

Hollywood style with grace. Okay, well thanks everybody. We're We're back and we're gonna think every couple of weeks to get out a new episode.

Unknown: 45:13

I don't know what