How to Make Time for God

Andy Withrow: 0:01

Welcome to the bear with me podcast where we aim to integrate belief and practice in the Christian life.

Vanessa Caruso: 0:18

Press the button. Going I didn't know what to say.

Andy Withrow: 0:26

To starting off this 1am I starting off this one. Well, I can start with our question. You know what we're doing?

Vanessa Caruso: 0:32

I mean, I know what we're starting with. Great. So Andy, yeah, what is something I can go first? So you can think of anything to say but no, you've

Andy Withrow: 0:45

already already told you. I've got mine. Okay, you're ready. I'm ready. Yeah, I'm ready to go. But you still go first?

Vanessa Caruso: 0:50

Well, now I want you to go first. What is something that's inspired you lately? Or that has kind of moved you closer to God? Something you've watched or listened to? Read experienced? Thought about? Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 1:11

Yeah, I'm gonna go with my good friend and current mentor, Reverend, Reverend Dr. I believe, wow, one of those. So I get to connect with him every couple of weeks. And we just met yesterday. And I don't know, there's just something about having somebody in your life who's regularly connecting with you hearing your ups and downs asking you good questions, encouraging you. It's just, I don't know. It's just necessary. Good. And fun. And I, you know, like, some, maybe some people who are verbal processors get you experienced this a lot, where it's just like saying things even thinking about out loud to somebody else who you respect and can kind of kind of speak some of that back to you or, or say what they're hearing and it's been, it's been really great. That's so

Vanessa Caruso: 2:17

great. Yeah, you seem happy just even talking about it or remembering it? I am. So like, what? How does it like encourage you? does it inspire you? What word would you use? Or maybe

Andy Withrow: 2:32

encouraged as a great is probably the one that's most obvious. I think sort of confirming, just confirming things like, you know how you get in your head a lot. You don't share it with anybody else? Oh, yeah. And you're like, oh, wait, was that a good idea or not? But just to, like, oh, yeah, no, that's sounds great. You know, or, or to challenge you, maybe on your thinking. It's just really helpful kind of helps you grow in confidence and that sort of thing. So that's, that's been really helpful for me.

Vanessa Caruso: 3:05

Great. Confirming and encouraging. What I loved recently was the documentary my Octopus teacher.

Andy Withrow: 3:15

Oh, I've seen the preview for that kitty, and I have oh, you would keep talking about how we're gonna watch that.

Vanessa Caruso: 3:23

Savannah would love it. Yeah, even Iran em it? Yeah. Leo started it with us. It is so beautiful. I don't even have like particular love for animals. Naturally, like some people do. Yeah, but the footage, like how beautiful the footage is. He has the guy has like a very gentle, calm demeanor. And quite serious, too. Yeah. And so the way the story is told about this octopus, and their friendship is just so moving. I keep thinking about it. Well, it is beautiful. I'm going to watch it again.

Andy Withrow: 4:05

Again. Yes, it's a it's a movie. It's like an hour and a half or Yeah. Documentary.

Vanessa Caruso: 4:12

Just like so captured my imagination. And I've never seen a CEO

Andy Withrow: 4:19

is he just did he just do it himself. He just like, I'm just gonna make the documentary or did someone like, Hey, I understand you have this relationship with an octopus.

Vanessa Caruso: 4:28

You know, he's like a film maker guy. Like he had all the footage. He was burnt out after so many years of working like that. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. That's really cool. totally recommend it.

Andy Withrow: 4:40

Okay. All right. All right.

Vanessa Caruso: 4:42

Put that in the show notes.

Andy Withrow: 4:44

Yep. Teacher, definitely Netflix. Yeah.

Vanessa Caruso: 4:50

Okay, well tell us what we're doing today.

Andy Withrow: 4:53

What are we doing today? We're in a discipleship series. So we've looked at the Great Commission. That was our first text Matthew 28, the famous last words of Jesus, and we want to spend a series that will be a certain number of episodes to be determined as we go along, but looking at specifically some discipleship texts were, at least to begin with starting off with where Jesus is having some interactions with his disciples and teaching them. And there's just there's a lot of these a lot of the Gospels are made up of these stories. So obviously, we're not going to go through them all, but just picking a select through and I've actually used sort of the selection that Greg Ogden from his book, discipleship essentials, it's a workbook that you can go through with people and just basically using using his texts that he chose to just say, well, let's just start here and kind of dig into these and see what comes out of them. I am someone who really appreciates and enjoys a lectionary of some sort. So where I don't have to, like decide myself or which text I'm going to, to read. So this is a sort of lectionary that he's, he's done the work of like putting these ones together. So we're just going to go through some of these and the one for today is Luke chapter six verses 12 through 16. And who should should I read it? Or should you read it?

Vanessa Caruso: 6:28

Oh, go ahead. I

Andy Withrow: 6:29

don't have it. What translation do you have in front of you?

Vanessa Caruso: 6:31

I like NRSV.

Andy Withrow: 6:34

And our S V, I have the ESV in front, okay. happens and you don't have your Bible out.

Vanessa Caruso: 6:40

Well, my computer's on it.

Andy Withrow: 6:44

Sitting on your Bible, yeah, it is. It's like, okay, because we can we're so for those of you listening, we are using a program that because we're not in the same space. We are Tella, podcasting telecasting so we can see each other because it helps for I'm just a very big nonverbal accused person. So it helps me to see Vanessa's face when she's like, giving me the look like I have no idea what you're talking about. That helps me adjust. Or when you're like usually what you're doing, you're just smiling with big eyes and say, Yeah, keep going. But anyway, you're using your Bible to help prop up your computer. Yes, it's good, then I guess I will read. Please do. Okay, this is Luke chapter six, verses 12 through 16. In these days, Jesus went out to the mountain to pray. And all night, he continued in prayer to God. And when day came, he called his disciples and chose from them 12, who mean named apostles, Simon, who mean named Peter, and Andrew has brother, and James and John and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew and Thomas and James the son of Alphaeus. And Simon, who was called the Zealot, and Judas, the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a trader. The end of that paragraph, there's a lot more after that. So let's jump into this. I just wanted to start with a bit of a bit of what we already talked about in the Matthew 28 textures to kind of help frame again, remind us what is discipleship? What is being a disciple, we talked about it in terms of being an apprentice to Jesus, that might be kind of a helpful image or term that's a bit more familiar than disciple. It's kind of used in, in the wider world. And so we're kind of getting in Luke's version of Jesus story we're getting at the bit where he's, he's calling specifically 12 to him. And he's calling them out of a larger crowd of disciples. So there's the 12 disciples who maybe we most famously, are most popularly usually think of when we think of disciples in the gospels, but there's also this larger crowd of disciples of maybe, you know, we know at some point he sends out 70 or 72 of these disciples, so is like maybe approaching 100 of this larger crowd of disciples. So he's calling these 12 out of this larger crowd that are following him around and listening to his teaching. And we've talked about disciple getting to be an insider Write someone who is, gets to follow Jesus around. And maybe now especially these 12, they get special access to Jesus, which seems really fun and unfair at the same time. Why do these 12 and they get special time and attention from Jesus. picture them around the campfire late at night, you know, asking him, so what did you mean when you said, you know, the kingdom of God is like a pearl, or the kingdom of God is like this, which we see some examples of that happening. And so there's this kind of that neat aspect. When we think of our own discipleship, I guess, say, Well, what did that mean for them? Is there some of that for us to do we get? Do we get some special access, we get some special benefit of being with Jesus, and what might that looked like, in the season has always been so feel free to interrupt. All your with all your thoughts and ideas? Great. So that's just the imaginative space of trying to enter into that as disciples of Jesus like, Okay, what's in this for us? What would what's our role in this? And what do we get? And I just want to start with some of the setting here. He starts off by saying in verse 12, in these days, and so a natural question might be, what were those days?

Vanessa Caruso: 11:27

Yes, happening. What were those days was

Andy Withrow: 11:30

back. Earlier in chapter six. Jesus has after having some, after specifically calling Peter and his brother Andrew to follow him. And James and John, who are all fishermen. That's in chapter five. That's something we'll look at specifically. Later on. He cleanses the leper, he heals a paralytic. He calls a tax collector to follow on. He has a conflict about fasting. He has a conflict about the Sabbath. And he gets to the point to where he heals a man on the Sabbath. In a synagogue, and this is a point of conflict that is so so significant in terrible from the religious authorities point of view that says that they were filled with fury and disgust with one another what they might do to Jesus. Wow, that's literally the verse before arborists in these days, and it's in that setting in that time, when there's all this early on and Jesus ministry and all this conflict is happening. Already, you're getting sort of this. This darkness these dark clouds looming, have this is not seem to be going well. And it's at this time that he goes out to the mountain to pray.

Vanessa Caruso: 13:09

Well, that makes a huge difference that in these days, he goes out. Because the what you said was the verse right before that is that people are furious with him. That's a very uncomfortable situation for me to be in. Yeah. To think about being able to concentrate enough to pray. Or maybe it felt like a necessity. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 13:39

Like, I can't sleep. I'm gonna go pray. Yeah. I mean, we're not given that that interpretive lens necessarily, it's not in the text, but you've got that setting of high conflict and tension.

Vanessa Caruso: 13:57

Which also makes me wonder, something I've never wondered about Jesus. But maybe part of that tension and conflict sparked a desire for him to have a little bit more of a community. Like maybe the naming of the 12. That's a good point came at that time for kind of that very human reason. I don't mean human as in a negative reason. I just mean, that's how we're wired. How we're made kind of reason is I don't want to go through this totally alone.

Andy Withrow: 14:36

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So that that helps paint the scene a little bit for me about maybe what was going through Jesus mind, heart and mind and imagination. And so he engages in this all night mountain prayer and the mountains in So Galileo So one of the reasons is region is it's north of Jerusalem, which was just it was kind of the capital, the Centers for the temple was the political center. Galilee was was North quite a bit. And a bit more I think, as I understand it a bit more mixed in terms of religious ideas and practice. There was a lot of interaction with people from other backgrounds. And it was surrounded there's a lake there. The Sea of Galilee that's where, you know, Peter and Andrew James and John are you know, have that make their life as fishermen and all around this big lake is these little villages these little towns and just outside of that, between the lake outside the lake and the towns are sort of these these mountains by mountains, I mean, hills, like Mount told me mount dug off to check I wonder, I wonder. I meant to look at my my handy dandy Bible Bible Atlas and look at the sort of holes because I'm guessing I'm picturing them about the size of Mount told me not to talk which is what how many? How would you say the elevation is?

Vanessa Caruso: 16:29

No, this is what we need. Well, for where Katie? Yeah,

Andy Withrow: 16:33

yeah. 200 feet, something like that. Now, you can even walk from the bottom to the top and about 10 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. And so he's going to mount told me to pray. And and I think the first thing I noticed actually even before that is that he's he's going out of wherever he is, whatever is using Pauline Compendium. He is getting out of out of the village out of his surroundings. And Jesus kind of does this in different spaces in the gospels, he gets gets up early in the morning, he goes out to a quiet place to pray, he gets away from his disciples, he gets away from from the crowds, he gets away from the city. Out of his setting. And there's something I think important, intentional about that. And I feel like you might have something to say,

Vanessa Caruso: 17:34

Well, yeah, it just makes me It confirms for me how different a retreat or an outing is, when I go away from my normal space, or normal agenda. Like for the table leadership retreats, how part of the spiritual value or the communal value of going away together is actually going away, the going away part and everything that it involves all the discomfort, kind of being out of sorts, feeling a little bit like having to pack for stuff, set up your way, you're going to sleep in this new space. I feel like for me some of that excitement, like Oh, I get to sleep at this retreat center for a couple nights stirs up some helpful stuff, but also that the discomfort or the uneasiness of it kind of stirs up some stuff that I don't have to look at if I just do a retreat at home. Yeah. So that's, that's interesting to realize that Jesus did that as well, that there's a different quality of praying, or of getting away or solitude when we do go outside of our normal agendas.

Andy Withrow: 19:04

Yeah, and I'm just thinking about to like, just how many distractions are around me constantly. Even if no one else, like if I'm at home and no one else is at the house? There's usually dishes. Yeah, it's hugely, you know, laundry, there's there's reminders of domestic necessities. Yeah. And, and getting getting out of that setting. I think might might be something easy to dismiss as something that's important and necessary at times. Whether it's even going for a walk or whether it's getting to way too bit of a secluded or quiet or lonely place. There's something maybe built into that that has this spiritual payoff or benefit of focus and attention.

Vanessa Caruso: 19:59

You know, my About this and mean, because you've read that time management guy, Adam Grant making that up.

Andy Withrow: 20:09

Oh the get Getting Things Done guy. Yeah. And Cal Newport. David Allen

Vanessa Caruso: 20:14

Kelo de Bourgh was totally

Andy Withrow: 20:18

close approximation. Yeah, so the count I read Cal Newports book who we've we discussed a few episodes back with Naomi on digital minimalism. I didn't read that one. But I read when they came out before called deep work. And these talks about how we're increasingly living in a time and place where we can't do focused work. We can't do deep work because of the constant distractions. Whether they're digital or just or not, I mean, constant meetings, interruptions and that sort of thing. And so. So he talks about countless examples. I know, it's true for me, too, if I want to get focused work done, it's better for me to get into the office or get started at 7am or 8am, before other people start coming in, or it's time for meetings for the day and that sort of thing. He says, This isn't always the case. This is something that he argues is more unique to our time and pace of life, and specifically in North America, or in the West in general. I don't know. But and so I just thought that just something that was a point of connection. For me, it's like, if Jesus had to do it in the first century, probably need to do it in the 21st century is make some intentionality, I think it's one of my, one of the other things because Jesus is intentional about prayer, about this connection point with, with God. And something that came up, I get to teach this discipleship class right now we're going through the same text, it's been really fun, right. And something that came up in our time together that really resonated with a lot of people is the idea that Jesus also had to pray to an invisible God. So we find that challenging, like speaking in to someone you can't see or always sense His presence, that that Jesus is engaging the same kind of connection.

Vanessa Caruso: 22:16

Wow, I hadn't really thought about that.

Andy Withrow: 22:20

So he's intentional about prayer, he's getting out of his everyday normal surroundings, it's getting to a place where he can, that's literally dark and quiet all night. And he's getting to the mountain, which, if, if you've read through your Bible, you know that the mountain is a special place all the way from Moses. Receiving also communing with God, the top of the mountain receiving words from God at the top of the mountain, with Elijah spends some significant times at the top of the mountains. It's prevalent in the Psalms is the mean image of a place to go to connect with God to be in God's presence. Yeah, there's sort of that easy idea to dismiss as primitive like, oh, because it's up, it's closer to the heavens and, and that sort of thing. But I think also, there's just even the very human element of getting up and out. And, and helping aiding our own senses of feeling closer. We do that with people who die, we go to the place, we spread their ashes, or we buried them, knowing that they're not really there. But it helps us to go there to feel closer. Yeah. It's not like God in the Bible is teaching that God isn't just more closer on mountains, he's this close to you. Was the one psalm 139. Doesn't matter if I send high above or go to the depths, depths of the pit, you're there. You're in both places. So it's so the Bible isn't thinking that you're physically closer to God, if you go to a mountain, I think it's acknowledging this phenomenon, that it helps us it helps our senses of feeling closer, like we might feel closer to others. Yeah. So I think that's a nice thing for us to say, hey, yeah, it's true. God is wherever you are. There's never Yeah, not with you. But there are maybe some things we can do to help us feel closer and be more attuned or be more present. Maybe even just some permission to do some of that stuff.

Vanessa Caruso: 24:44

I love that. Yeah, it reminds me that you know, people we live in such a beautiful place and people kind of have these go to spots of where they go to have some alone time. Like, I can think of some friends who go to the beach by Dallas Road, your wife who loves mountains, or little lookout points over the water. Yeah. And also, it makes me wonder if Jesus frequented the same places. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 25:22

Well, it did. I mean, I thought that too, because your mind remember the the last one, we looked at Matthew 28. Go to gallium, you know, meet you there at a mountain didn't specify, didn't name the mountain just at some Mountain Dew. So you wonder like, oh, did they have a special? Did they know like, oh, well, I No worries. Yeah. Yeah, like the one I know is mountain.

Vanessa Caruso: 25:43

Which reminds me this great book by Ruth Haley Barton invitation to retreat. She recommends in there, you know, finding a place to retreat that you can frequent. Yeah, because it kind of takes the decision fatigue and the newness out of the retreating. So once you find a good spot, a good enough spot for you, she recommends just going to that for a while, as like your place so that you can settle into it a little bit quicker, more quickly. So it might have been strategic to that Jesus had a few. Yeah, a few go to spots. It's good. Oh, and the other thing about mountain that when we think of is just symbolically, you have a little bit of a different view than when you're on the ground. And whenever I'm intentional about something, whether it's little or big, like if I do go on a couple nights, solo silent retreat or something like that. There is this opportunity to look at my life from a different vantage point, if I choose to accept it. That doesn't happen when I'm just up close and personal with all the things I compulsively do and think about and all my habits, you know, stuff that is hard to even get some clarity on or see clearly. So I also like that, that there's this image of Jesus kind of getting a little bit higher up and looking at everything. Yeah. From from the

Andy Withrow: 27:25

top of Mount Tomini just kind of oversee the Shelburne Valley and Saanich. And then you can see all the way down into Victoria. Yeah. He was there all night.

Vanessa Caruso: 27:39

I don't like that part.

Andy Withrow: 27:40

Yeah. A little bit of resistance there.

Vanessa Caruso: 27:42

Yeah.

Andy Withrow: 27:44

You're not going to go to Mount told me all night.

Vanessa Caruso: 27:45

No, I mean, how uncomfortable does it sound to pull an all nighter before like a big day? Sounds so uncomfortable.

Andy Withrow: 27:54

Yeah. Yeah. Because look what happens next? You know what happens next? Well, the naming, right? He named he calls the names of disciples. But what we didn't get to is this is right before he starts his big sermon. In Matthew is the Sermon on the Mount in Luke. It's a sermon on the plane, or similar content. But yeah, he's gonna He's gonna preach his big, big sermon

Vanessa Caruso: 28:24

that goes against everything I've ever heard. Don't stay up all night before you preach. Yes. Or like do anything. That's your like your TED Talk, like you're going to give your one life TED Talk. Definitely get sleep the night before. So that part, yeah, that purchase is a little bit weird what it make what it reminds me of is our fasting conversation. When, you know, the disciples go into town to get something to eat for lunch. She's a sense of talking to this woman at the well. They come back off from food, and he's like, I'm good. And they're like, Oh, someone brought you food. Because that's the only possible way you can be good after our little journey. And he says, I have food to eat that you don't know about. And they're like, Wait, someone secretly brought you food. And then he knows what they're thinking. And he's like, Yeah, my My food is to do the work of God.

Andy Withrow: 29:22

It's just stunned silence from the disciples. It's like, okay,

Vanessa Caruso: 29:27

yeah I know that that is also weird. So do you think it's a similar thing that Jesus is read? He has rest and rejuvenation, which we all know is what sleep does for us, like our bodies need it our human bodies. Our souls need to catch up to themselves our subconscious needs it. Yeah. And yeah, Do you think he's saying I have rats that you do not know about? And plus, I like

Andy Withrow: 30:04

that I like that parallel. Because I mean, this is prayer is communion in dialogue with the Father. And and just that that idea of him having that that connection or that sense. I associate those things with with conviction and confidence and peace. And so I might be physically tired. But if I have those three things, and I'm still doing pretty good. If I'm tired, I don't have those three things, then. Yeah. If I'm wide awake, I don't have those three things then. Yeah. Oh, no. Not good, either. And so yeah, I would think so. I mean, it makes me think of the John 15 imagery of abiding in the vine. And yeah, the the, the fruit and the growth that comes that comes out of that. I think the thing I wondered after, after spending some time in this text, because I think I used to think, oh, he went to the mountain to pray about which 12 He should pick. But after reading this over again, I wondered, after praying, did he realize I should pick 12 disciples, I should pick 12. closer ones. I like that. And these are the ones in in the context of these days, where there's increasing conflict, where I'm guessing he's sensing there's darkness on the horizon. Whether he knows the cross at this point or not. He's come and he's shown some signs, some mighty works. He's announced the gospel in the kingdom and he's met with resistance. And so he's made me think, is he doing the math? Like, okay, I see where this is going. And then 12 disciples, like, Okay, I'm gonna I better start, I better start apprenticing. I'm going to start mentoring. I like our version. Because I can tell my dates are already numbered. Yeah. And there's the closeness aspect. There's the sharing everything aspect. There's the training and the mentoring and the apprenticing aspect of this. And that, just that, that kind of changed a lot of things. For me

Vanessa Caruso: 32:42

thinking about it that way. What what did it change in particular?

Andy Withrow: 32:45

Well, I mean, the sense I got out of it was conflict, which would produce anxiety in me, personally, which might lead me to prayer. But however, Jesus is processing that, because I think, I think he is probably a better trustor than than I am. But still the need to, to go and commune with with God, and discern and decide what's next. And yeah, it made me think of going into prayer with our agendas and our lists, which I don't think is wrong, but maybe also having space to, it may seem to go pray and listen to it and discern maybe what God is speaking to me that isn't obvious to me, doesn't necessarily occur to me in this moment. Don't pack the agenda. Nice. Right? So there's kind of that side of it. We got our prayer requests. So I'm supposed to pray for so and so. All these things, but also, is there space of just God? Were you saying, what's your what's your agenda and all this? That was kind of the one of the takeaways for me?

Vanessa Caruso: 34:02

Yeah, I love that. It's for me, it does something similar to think of Jesus going to be alone with God versus Jesus going with some plan in place that he wants to pray about, you know, like, Oh, I'm gonna, I want to figure out which disciples to call after this. Yeah. Because it kind of takes the pressure off of that time. In a way, like if the goal is to open myself up to God, to listen for what God might be saying or doing in my life that I might not be seeing if I didn't take time and to let myself be loved by God, then it doesn't surprise me that a fruit of that in the morning is that he acts on his an idea to call the 12 Yeah. So that The dynamic between contemplation and action and contemplation, being more about opening ourselves to God and letting ourselves be loved by God and trusting that good right action will come from that. Yeah, yeah, something about that feels really good. It reminds me of Henry now, Allen's article on this passage, which I've referenced before on the podcast, moving from solitude to community to ministry, we can link it again. But in the very first paragraphs, he defines discipline, not as something that we, you know, really try to gain or do or exert control over, but discipline of solitude, in this case, being the effort to create some space in which God can act in which God can do something that we hadn't planned on or imagined. So maybe Jesus was a little stuck and perplexed about all the darkness looming. Maybe he was feeling self conscious or anxious or not remembering, not trusting what happened at His baptism, maybe he was like, doubting that, or something. And so he goes away for the night to remember who he is. And from that, yeah,

Andy Withrow: 36:22

well, yeah, it's a similar, it's a similar kind of feel to it to Mark chapter one where he, he goes into Capernaum. And he teaches in the synagogue, he casts out a man with a unclean spirit there, whatever that looked like, in meant and then. And then he heals Peter's mother in law. And the whole town comes to his door with its need for healing, and restoration. And he's up all night healing, and then it says, early the next morning, long before dawn, he got up and went out to a quiet place, a lonely place to pray, and they find him like, what are you doing? I was looking for you. The the context is sort of, look at this great thing we've got going on. This is a, this is an amazing, an obvious work of God, let's get back to it. You know, set up shop here in Capernaum, we can make a bigger house, you know, with a sign. And he's like, No, we're going to go to the next town. So I can preach there. Also, that's why I came out. It's like this. I'm going here to remember my vocation, who I belong to, where, where I'm going and where I've come from. And, and I don't know, like, like, I think it's an interesting question about Jesus's own doubts or anxieties, because I don't I don't know if that's necessarily necessary prerequisite for all of those things. But at the very least, a commitment consistent commitment to, to being in communion with the Father, and focused on his mission and, and what his vocation and calling is and saying, that's what I'm going to continue to do. So it seems like this ongoing discernment, right. Okay, here's what's next and then eventually, on to Jerusalem and, and death, as we'll see later on.

Vanessa Caruso: 38:19

Wow, like you said, If Jesus needed that, that kind of regular recalibration serving life with vocation direction and saying, Am I going where I think I should be going and where I want to go? Yeah. Then we need that.

Andy Withrow: 38:41

Yeah, for sure. And yeah, and I think and I think we need that whether or not we feel anxious,

Vanessa Caruso: 38:49

or have doubt. But you're saying, yeah, that that's, like,

Andy Withrow: 38:52

that's not that's not a necessary prerequisite to go find a mountain. And pray that there could just be like, I want to be in constant communion with with God, and I want to be discerning and listening for what's next thing, my life could be going quite well. Or there could be substantial challenges. Or it could be feeling quite anxious or struggling or

Vanessa Caruso: 39:16

kind of dry and disconnected. No. Yeah. Like it.

Andy Withrow: 39:23

How about the 12? About the 12 disciples?

Vanessa Caruso: 39:26

Yeah, I've never really thought about them. Never. Apart from like, just the group like the 12. Yeah. The individually

Andy Withrow: 39:36

named a couple of Simon's in here. Yeah. Couple of Julius's. Huh. You get the sense that in the first century they didn't have a lot of options for names Yeah. But the you know, there's there's so many memories

Vanessa Caruso: 39:50

Yeah. So many Jesus's actually lots of Jesus's

Andy Withrow: 39:53

Yeah, that's right. So I like this The so he called his disciples and chose from the 12, whom He named apostles, which has this sort of this representative nature to it. Like you're like, already, in the very beginning, before their apprenticeship is even started, he's naming them as you're going to be my representatives, I'm going to send you out, in my name, to do my work, and as in to speak my words. And that's, that's kind of crazy to me that that's all like, the end is in view here of, of what Jesus is going to do. And we're going to see how far they have to go in terms of transformation. And how much they don't understand, and are just disoriented and don't get it. But he's, he's naming them apostles now, even though it's going to be quite a process of transformation before. We might legitimately call them apostles, you know, yeah. And, and it's made me think of Jesus, commanding or transforming destinies purposes, and calling in us that that's what he does. And that's a big thing in the Bible is God is always changing names. And someone in someone in my, in my class, made that point that I hadn't thought about, it's like, oh, is this is this sort of a is this kind of a, a hint at Jesus identification with the Father and the divinity because God is always changing names in the Old Testament. And here, here we see Jesus changing. Simon's name is Peter. Simon, which means read, and Peter, which means rock. Ca, that's pretty neat. So it's kind of that's kind of a cool observation. But so you get that both individual and communal here, you are all going to be apostles. Simon, I'd like to call you Peter Reid, I like to call you rock. I think that Jesus still calls disciples to be with him, in the same way in the midst in these days, in the midst of his words, and works that His word is still present to us and is he's still doing works in our midst, as a people, as individuals and as a community. And so there's this great invitation to be with him to hear him. Maybe command our destinies or or our vocations our callings, our sense of, of what we're doing in the world. And to be with him to have this some sort of access to and that's a lot of what our show is about, and what we want to kind of figure out for our own selves. And for those who are with those, I guess, who are who are listening along with us is okay, well, how do we pay attention? How do we get this inside access, so to speak, and, and know when Jesus is speaking to us and and following him in that way? Any last words, Vanessa?

Vanessa Caruso: 43:11

No, I am. I am really curious about your last big point like that Jesus still calls us because this kind of being rooted in the story just feel so different. And it kind of feels like a one time thing. You know? So it makes me curious how, what what still relates where invitation still? Yeah, alive and well.

Andy Withrow: 43:34

Yeah. Let's make sure we try our best to wrestle through what that might look like in our lives next time. Yeah. I'm good. Great. Thanks. Okay. All right. Thanks, Vanessa. Thanks, everybody for tuning in. And we'll catch you next time on the podcast.